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Old 02-11-2017, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,401 posts, read 2,726,205 times
Reputation: 2159

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL Golfer View Post
The green spaces btwn the buildings are for the people in the buildings/apts to enjoy, not a destination park. Does nothing for the residents. And yes, they are small. I'm not going to load the kids in the golf cart and say "lets go to the park" and hang out there
Oh, so nobody besides the TOD residents would use the public space surrounding the publicly accessible transit station with the public library in the same area?

Sure. If you wouldn't use it, then that's your issue, but it's a sizable space that many would make use of.

Quote:
With the THREE new apartment complexes in the past few yrs and one on the way, its getting plenty dense over there. At what point will it be enough? When those are bulldozed and replaced with 40 story buildings?
When there is a legitimate option of conducting daily business without needing a car. That doesn't require anywhere near 40-story buildings. In fact, sky-scrapers don't actually add density as well as you'd think they would, since such large buildings dedicate a large percentage of their potential floor space to utilities and stairs and elevators.

Lloyd Alter's Article Cities need Goldilocks housing density – not too high or low, but just right, suggests that,
Quote:
At the Goldilocks density, construction is a lot cheaper and the buildings a lot more efficient; in Montreal's Plateau district, the buildings are mostly just three storeys [sic] high, with exterior stairs. Every inch of interior space is used for living, making them almost 100% efficient, and accommodating over 11,000 people per square kilometre [sic].
So, 11k per sq km, or ~28.5k per sq mile. Now, of course the ENTIRE city doesn't need to be that, quite the contrary actually, but core areas, like those immediately around transit stations should be.

Quote:
Glad we have even more people who don't live here and telling us what we need.
And i'm glad to have a Balkanesque town dictate how a metro-wise agency handles its own property, and how metro-significant build environments are set.

Quote:
I get that naysayers will always be louder. But there just wasn't anyone for it. If you drove down Dresden everyday I'm sure you'd have a different perspective.
There were people for it. Just because you don't know of them doesn't mean there weren't any. Again, so me some legitimate polling, and we can talk about whether or not the will of the people was implemented here, and if it really was just a loud minority holding a positive view on this.

Quote:
Every project has design changes. Every developer wants to do X. So they submit X + a bunch of BS in hopes they get back close to X. Don't feed me that design change b.s. They know what a community wants. They aren't stupid.
If you want to be cynical about it, then feel free to, but MARTA spent YEARS getting a project that would work well at that site. Just because some people didn't like this or that, didn't mean the agency didn't actually pay attention to the wishes.

Quote:
Lets be honest, 99% of the people who would be coming and going on a weekday here will be via car. MARTA accommodates a certain economic population segment for the most part. That doesn't include people who can afford $1500+ for a 1bd apartment. Yea, yea, everyone knows someone that takes MARTA who can afford a car. They are certainly the exception, not the rule and never will be in Atlanta. I'm talking about weekday riders not airport/sport/event riders.
Using 30% of household income for rent, and a monthly rent of $1500, a household would need an annual salary of $60,000 or more.

A 2010 study by the ARC found that, of those surveyed, 19% of MARTA rail riders had a household income of $60,000 or more. Assuming similar percentages of today's ridership, that represents some 38,000 people who already use MARTA rail daily, who's household income could afford to live at such a development.


That's not to mention the potential for people new to the metro who could have used it. Those people will likely come here no matter what, so now, instead of having 1% of them use transit for their daily needs (it would have likely been a good be higher given current transit usage trends, and the added system use from MARTA expansions), there simply is NO alternative.

So they won't explicitly settle in Brookhaven, but they'll go somewhere, guaranteeing to add traffic without an alternative.

All that's happened is a postponement, not any actual kind of solution. In fact, the metro is worse off as a whole because of this.

Quote:
I have a 1/2 dozen restaurants walking distance to my house. I feel I won. I wouldn't take another three to make Dresden even more of a parking lot, trying to absorb this project.
What if your or your neighbor's job could have been within walking distance? What if your kids could have walked to the library? What if those new restaurants could have become favorite family outing locations, or where you grab coffee / breakfast on the way to work? What if it's where your kids could have popped in for an afternoon snack after school?

Besides, what does it matter if Dresden is already a parking lot? All that means is that people have to find alternatives, and right now there aren't many. This would have more added options and alternatives, apparently without actually making anything worse (since you say it's already as bad as it could be, a parking lot).

Now there is just the traffic.

Quote:
Move here and then I'd respect your opinion a little more.
Try to think on a larger scale than just your little chunk of the metro.
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,401 posts, read 2,726,205 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
The census tracts in the area in question (i.e., central Brookhaven in the vicinity of the MARTA station) are denser than Virginia Highland. (See Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census).

These folks have been hammered by development in the last couple of decades. Let them catch their breath and decide what they want their community to be. More density isn't the Holy Grail anyway.
Brookhaven (the three tracts converging around the MARTA station):
Census Tract 21405: 4564 ppsm
Census Tract 21411: 4671 ppsm
Census Tract 21102: 3446 ppsm

Virginia Highland (the six tracts that include the neighborhood within them):
Census Tract 00002: 4903 ppsm
Census Tract 00001: 3415 ppsm
Census Tract 00014: 7817 ppsm
Census Tract 00015: 9733 ppsm
Census Tract 22401: 4293 ppsm
Census Tract 00202: 3371 ppsm
Yes there are parts around Virginia Highland which are less dense than those around the station site. The average density, though, is still higher than Brookhaven (see previous post), and the maximum density areas are significantly higher than any of the three tracts surrounding the station area.

The densest parts of Brookhaven are along Buford Highway (not surprising at all), which is getting ART, and which many, many people want to receive some kind of high-capacity transit along (whether light rail, or Bus Rapid Transit). The actual heavy rail station, though, is surrounded by low density.

Again. The point is that Virginia Highland DOES NOT have a heavy rail station. The point is that Brookahven, which DOES have a heavy rail station, is comparably dense, if not less dense, around the station itself.
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:07 AM
 
28,107 posts, read 24,632,008 times
Reputation: 9523
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Brookhaven (the three tracts converging around the MARTA station):
Census Tract 21405: 4564 ppsm
Census Tract 21411: 4671 ppsm
Census Tract 21102: 3446 ppsm

Virginia Highland (the six tracts that include the neighborhood within them):
Census Tract 00002: 4903 ppsm
Census Tract 00001: 3415 ppsm
Census Tract 00014: 7817 ppsm
Census Tract 00015: 9733 ppsm
Census Tract 22401: 4293 ppsm
Census Tract 00202: 3371 ppsm
Yes there are parts around Virginia Highland which are less dense than those around the station site. The average density, though, is still higher than Brookhaven (see previous post), and the maximum density areas are significantly higher than any of the three tracts surrounding the station area.

The densest parts of Brookhaven are along Buford Highway (not surprising at all), which is getting ART, and which many, many people want to receive some kind of high-capacity transit along (whether light rail, or Bus Rapid Transit). The actual heavy rail station, though, is surrounded by low density.

Again. The point is that Virginia Highland DOES NOT have a heavy rail station. The point is that Brookahven, which DOES have a heavy rail station, is comparably dense, if not less dense, around the station itself.
What about these areas within 1.5 miles of the Brookhaven station?

Census Tract 21416: 10993 ppsm
Census Tract 21413: 13771 ppsm
Census Tract 21415: 4930 ppsm
Census Tract 10002: 7001 ppsm
Census Tract 9402: 7887 ppsm
Census Tract 21417: 7998 ppsm

I'd say the point has less to do with the fact that Virginia Highland doesn't have mass transit than it does with Brookhaven's right to weigh in on its own future.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,401 posts, read 2,726,205 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
What about these areas within 1.5 miles of the Brookhaven station?

Census Tract 21416: 10993 ppsm (Like I said, ON Buford Hwy. It is clear through Google Maps that a significant percentage of that density is from the apartments on Buford.)

Census Tract 21413: 13771 ppsm (Like I said, ON Buford Hwy. It is clear through Google Maps that a significant percentage of that density is from the apartments on Buford.)

Census Tract 21415: 4930 ppsm ()The primary roads for this area are E Roxboro Rd, and Lenox Park Blvd.

Census Tract 10002: 7001 ppsm (You listed the full population here. It's actually 2893 ppsm)

Census Tract 9402: 7887 ppsm (This is in CoA, and is Lindbergh, Also is ~3 miles away.)

Census Tract 21417: 7998 ppsm (Like I said, ON Buford Hwy. It is clear through Google Maps that a significant percentage of that density is from the apartments on Buford.)

I'd say the point has less to do with the fact that Virginia Highland doesn't have mass transit than it does with Brookhaven's right to weigh in on its own future.
Again, the important figures are what are ON TOP OF transit stations. Yes what is within a mile and a half is important, but the CENTER of the 1.5 mile radius (more like half mile to a quarter mile at most, really, if we're talking about walking to the station.) should be the most intense of that density.

Here, though, it's like a doughnut. All the density is built AWAY from the station, with the area immediately around the station being a good bit massive parking lots and SFH.

That's not to say that there aren't useful residencies, or that there aren't shops, within walking distance of the station, but nearly all of these are car-oriented in design.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,147 posts, read 16,140,747 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATL Golfer View Post
The green spaces btwn the buildings are for the people in the buildings/apts to enjoy, not a destination park. Does nothing for the residents. And yes, they are small. I'm not going to load the kids in the golf cart and say "lets go to the park" and hang out there



With the THREE new apartment complexes in the past few yrs and one on the way, its getting plenty dense over there. At what point will it be enough? When those are bulldozed and replaced with 40 story buildings?



Glad we have even more people who don't live here and telling us what we need.



I get that naysayers will always be louder. But there just wasn't anyone for it. If you drove down Dresden everyday I'm sure you'd have a different perspective.




Every project has design changes. Every developer wants to do X. So they submit X + a bunch of BS in hopes they get back close to X. Don't feed me that design change b.s. They know what a community wants. They aren't stupid.



Lets be honest, 99% of the people who would be coming and going on a weekday here will be via car. MARTA accommodates a certain economic population segment for the most part. That doesn't include people who can afford $1500+ for a 1bd apartment. Yea, yea, everyone knows someone that takes MARTA who can afford a car. They are certainly the exception, not the rule and never will be in Atlanta. I'm talking about weekday riders not airport/sport/event riders.

I have a 1/2 dozen restaurants walking distance to my house. I feel I won. I wouldn't take another three to make Dresden even more of a parking lot, trying to absorb this project.

Move here and then I'd respect your opinion a little more.
Race and income class rear's it's ugly head into the debate.
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Old 02-13-2017, 02:41 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 24,632,008 times
Reputation: 9523
Well, that didn't last long.


MARTA plans to revisit Brookhaven TOD project - Reporter Newspapers
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Old 02-13-2017, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,401 posts, read 2,726,205 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Eh, there's no plan as to how or when the project will start up again.

Quote:
“I don’t think anyone thinks six-and-a-half acres of empty parking lot is the best use of space,” said MARTA Board Chair Robbie Ashe in an interview.

No specific timeline has been set when MARTA will come back to the city, Ashe said.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:08 PM
 
28,107 posts, read 24,632,008 times
Reputation: 9523
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Eh, there's no plan as to how or when the project will start up again.
Exactly. This time let Brookhaven set the pace. It IS their town.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,401 posts, read 2,726,205 times
Reputation: 2159
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Exactly. This time let Brookhaven set the pace. It IS their town.
10 years MARTA spent on this in general.

2 years MARTA spent working directly with the city and the citizens there in.

Over 20 meetings, far more than any other outreach effort MARTA has done.


MARTA tried to work at Brookhaven's pace, and just got perpetually kicked down the road.
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Old 02-14-2017, 04:15 AM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,908 posts, read 3,704,919 times
Reputation: 2460
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
10 years MARTA spent on this in general.

2 years MARTA spent working directly with the city and the citizens there in.

Over 20 meetings, far more than any other outreach effort MARTA has done.


MARTA tried to work at Brookhaven's pace, and just got perpetually kicked down the road.
Well maybe if MARTA had worked WITH Brookhaven instead of dictating to Brookhaven, things would be different.
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