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Old 09-09-2015, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Sweet Home Chicago!
4,699 posts, read 3,225,448 times
Reputation: 5125

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Kids, whose parents make over a certain amount per year do not need the HOPE and therefore it should be for those that need it to pay for college.
So we should penalize the successful? That's not fair and just fosters the entitlement mentality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt View Post
Nah. Give the money to those who are likely to excel in college (the high academic achievers). Invest in those who will contribute something to society. This shouldn't become another redistribute benefits to the poor, stupid and/or lazy program. Invest in winners regardless of their economic standing.
Absolutely!
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:22 AM
 
28,135 posts, read 24,659,949 times
Reputation: 9534
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
That was never the intent of the scholarship, it opened the door to college for a lot of first time college students who would have never gone to college to start with. For the students you are talking about above Hope also covered technical college in full, which led to a lot of students walking out into a lower middle class job from families that had never been above the poverty line before.
I suspect a good many people with a technical education are doing better than a lot of people with 4 year (or 5 or 6 year) B.A.'s.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:27 AM
 
87 posts, read 80,210 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt View Post
Nah. Give the money to those who are likely to excel in college (the high academic achievers). Invest in those who will contribute something to society. This shouldn't become another redistribute benefits to the poor, stupid and/or lazy program. Invest in winners regardless of their economic standing.
Slightly over half of all high school graduates will go to college, and about 3/5 of them will graduate within 6 years. Given the revenue source, the HOPE scholarship is a case where money comes from lower income households and flows to higher income households.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:29 AM
 
221 posts, read 170,627 times
Reputation: 142
Here's a novel idea. Do away with the scholarship and stop subsidizing the university system to begin with? That would be a good start.

The above will never happen but there are ways for the government to improve the efficiency in how our taxpayer dollars are being spent. Income share agreements have shown to be successful and i think they would be a step in the right direction if implemented at the state level.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,165 posts, read 16,163,004 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt View Post
Nah. Give the money to those who are likely to excel in college (the high academic achievers). Invest in those who will contribute something to society. This shouldn't become another redistribute benefits to the poor, stupid and/or lazy program. Invest in winners regardless of their economic standing.
Are you saying those from lower incomes will not succeed in life and are born lazy, stupid, etc? I have known too many rich kids that screwed around in college, because they knew they were set.
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Old 09-09-2015, 07:50 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,733,220 times
Reputation: 5394
I like how the Hope scholarship, something that is funded primarily by the poor people that make up the bulk of lottery ticket sales, is slowly being remade so that poor kids basically can never get it. For everyone in the "it needs to have more stringent guidelines for who can get it" and the "it's not an entitlement" crowds, do you realize what the number one reason for people being able to complete college? Lack of funds.

It really sucks how such a progressive idea has had it's coffers raided by those that pray of the alter or lower taxes, and then perverted in to a form in which the type of student that it was meant to help can barely qualify for it. I don't want to a long rant, but do people have no idea how difficult it is for a poor student trapped in the cycle of generational poverty to meet these new standards?

I guess this is just the latest example of people being asked to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps...even though they don't have any.
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Old 09-09-2015, 08:03 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,733,220 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by travbo View Post
Here's a novel idea. Do away with the scholarship and stop subsidizing the university system to begin with? That would be a good start.

The above will never happen but there are ways for the government to improve the efficiency in how our taxpayer dollars are being spent. Income share agreements have shown to be successful and i think they would be a step in the right direction if implemented at the state level.
Wait, are you under the impression that the Hope is funded via taxes? If you weren't aware, Hope is funded solely by lottery ticket sales.
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Old 09-09-2015, 08:12 AM
 
221 posts, read 170,627 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Wait, are you under the impression that the Hope is funded via taxes? If you weren't aware, Hope is funded solely by lottery ticket sales.
I'm well aware that Hope is funded via lottery ticket sales. It's a tax on those that are mathematically challenged. It's revenue generated by the state and used by the state. Therefore i still view it as a tax because it's money that could/would/should be utilized in much more efficient ways (ie. spent or saved in the open market place)
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Old 09-09-2015, 08:25 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,733,220 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by travbo View Post
I'm well aware that Hope is funded via lottery ticket sales. It's a tax on those that are mathematically challenged. It's revenue generated by the state and used by the state. Therefore i still view it as a tax because it's money that could/would/should be utilized in much more efficient ways (ie. spent or saved in the open market place)
Yet it is not a tax. No one is forced to play the lottery, and that money would go elsewhere so I don't see why it is a problem. We're not talking about taxing people directly to fund college attendance. This is quite a novel way to solve an actual problem without it making it a burden on taxpayers who didn't wish to participate. I would think conservative anti-tax folks would be all about that. Guess not.
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Old 09-09-2015, 08:44 AM
 
221 posts, read 170,627 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Yet it is not a tax. No one is forced to play the lottery, and that money would go elsewhere so I don't see why it is a problem. We're not talking about taxing people directly to fund college attendance. This is quite a novel way to solve an actual problem without it making it a burden on taxpayers who didn't wish to participate. I would think conservative anti-tax folks would be all about that. Guess not.
You're completing ignoring the fact that the majority of people who are playing the lottery are also subsidized by the taxpayer through EBT and other forms of government assistance. So while individuals aren't being taxed directly there are consequences that effect all of us.
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