U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-11-2015, 07:13 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,555 posts, read 8,616,515 times
Reputation: 5052

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhammaster View Post
I take Doravile to the airport all the time and I'm not even sure what you are talking about. This sounds some hyperbolic trash Rush Limbaugh would say.
This sounds like some hyperbolic trash that a MARTA fanboy would say.

Actually, bhammaster, I suppose we all have differing experiences and each perceive situations in our own way, based on preferences and experiences. I certainly stand by my observations and posts. Peace.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-11-2015, 07:33 AM
bu2
 
8,967 posts, read 5,662,084 times
Reputation: 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Yes, they do.

Gasoline Taxes and Tolls Pay for Only a Third of State & Local Road Spending | Tax Foundation

... Well, it is actually 74.4% subsidy here in GA, so I guess it is even more of a subsidy than you suggest.

Meanwhile your $2.50 MARTA rail fare is covering almost the entire cost of your trip: MARTA > News And Events > MARTA Highlights > KPIs
You are ignoring "federal aid" as described in your link. We pay for that federal aid with federal gas taxes. When you take out money siphoned out for beautification and rail and other things, the gas tax comes close to playing for the federal highway program. As of 6 or 7 years ago, it more than paid for it.

Farebox recovery is 30-35% nationally.
http://www.ntdprogram.gov/ntdprogram/pubs/NTST/NTST.pdf (see page 36 of the report)

Maybe HRT does better than buses here. Last I saw Atlanta did a little better than average, but not a lot better. Couldn't find any recent links on Atlanta, but its not any better than 50% combined for bus and rail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2015, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,852 posts, read 2,646,462 times
Reputation: 1410
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
If that is the case, then why do we have so many charitable organizations?
I'd guess because making a tax deductible contribution has financial benefits. The contributions make it cheaper to get under a certain income bracket. It's a way of minimizing taxable income which would cost more.

Now, that doesn't mean that I think all charities are out to bilk the gov't or that some folks really care, but it's fair to say there are some who have selfish motives.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2015, 07:44 AM
 
9,907 posts, read 6,894,976 times
Reputation: 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
You are ignoring "federal aid" as described in your link. We pay for that federal aid with federal gas taxes. When you take out money siphoned out for beautification and rail and other things, the gas tax comes close to playing for the federal highway program. As of 6 or 7 years ago, it more than paid for it.

Farebox recovery is 30-35% nationally.
http://www.ntdprogram.gov/ntdprogram/pubs/NTST/NTST.pdf (see page 36 of the report)

Maybe HRT does better than buses here. Last I saw Atlanta did a little better than average, but not a lot better. Couldn't find any recent links on Atlanta, but its not any better than 50% combined for bus and rail.
Even if you want to include federal aid (which is harder to argue is a user fee) you are still getting a subsidy of 50% on roads, so your original statement is still false: Road Spending by State Funded by User Taxes and Fees, Including Federal Gas Tax Revenues | Tax Foundation

And I am specifically comparing rail transit. So far this year each unlinked MARTA rail trip only costs $2.52. So MARTA is a lot closer to being self sufficient than roads are.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2015, 07:52 AM
 
985 posts, read 1,430,093 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Even if you want to include federal aid (which is harder to argue is a user fee) you are still getting subsidy of 50% on roads, so your original statement is still false: Road Spending by State Funded by User Taxes and Fees, Including Federal Gas Tax Revenues | Tax Foundation

And I am specifically comparing rail transit. So far this year each unlinked MARTA rail trip only costs $2.52. So MARTA is a lot closer to being self sufficient than roads are.
Let it go, you can't convince someone who moves the goal post. Federal Aid is not a user fee. I do not own a car and I pay federal taxes, that fund highways and roads across the nation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2015, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,147 posts, read 16,147,338 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
And there are always people who stick their head in the sand, deny reality and call people who don't agree uneducated. The articles that have been linked on here show that crime is increased in inner city locations and that the studies are mixed beyond that.
How can higher crime in the inner city be linked to transit? I was calling people who think transit brings crime as being uneducated, because they have not done the research themselves that proves otherwise. Please explain the crime in South Cobb or Franklin Rd? There is little transit serving those areas. How about Dunwoody, Buckhead, Brookhaven, Kirkwood, Decatur, and Avondale Estates. Those areas are served by rail and have reasonable crime rates.
Maybe what you call inner city has higher crime, because those areas have a higher density of people and historically have been underfunded.
If transit brings crime, then does it also increase property value?
Quote:
Value Capture

Over the past decade, it has become increasingly clear that the presence of transit can has the potential to increase the property values and result in valuable development opportunities. In this era of constrained transite funding and widespread demand for new and expanded transit systems, policy makers, transit planners and elected officials are increasingly interested in harnessing a portion of the value that transit confers to surrounding properties to fund transit infrastructure or related improvements in station areas. This idea, known as "value capture," is much discussed in planning, transit, and local government circles. This section is devoted to Value Capture reports, news, and projects.
http://www.reconnectingamerica.org/r...value-capture/

Last edited by cqholt; 09-11-2015 at 09:21 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2015, 10:54 AM
 
1,151 posts, read 927,213 times
Reputation: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
MARTA fanboy

The fact that this phrase even exists shows a terrible anti-transit bias.

I fear traffic will just have to get much worst before the people here start wanting to expand mass transit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2015, 11:27 AM
 
9,907 posts, read 6,894,976 times
Reputation: 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhammaster View Post
The fact that this phrase even exists shows a terrible anti-transit bias.

I fear traffic will just have to get much worst before the people here start wanting to expand mass transit.
The good news is that people with this mind set are rapidly slipping into the minority, especially in the core.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2015, 12:38 PM
bu2
 
8,967 posts, read 5,662,084 times
Reputation: 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanarmy View Post
Let it go, you can't convince someone who moves the goal post. Federal Aid is not a user fee. I do not own a car and I pay federal taxes, that fund highways and roads across the nation.
The federal gas tax is very much a user fee. It is the essence of a user fee.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-11-2015, 12:41 PM
bu2
 
8,967 posts, read 5,662,084 times
Reputation: 3534
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
How can higher crime in the inner city be linked to transit? I was calling people who think transit brings crime as being uneducated, because they have not done the research themselves that proves otherwise. Please explain the crime in South Cobb or Franklin Rd? There is little transit serving those areas. How about Dunwoody, Buckhead, Brookhaven, Kirkwood, Decatur, and Avondale Estates. Those areas are served by rail and have reasonable crime rates.
Maybe what you call inner city has higher crime, because those areas have a higher density of people and historically have been underfunded.
If transit brings crime, then does it also increase property value?

Value Capture - Reconnecting America
On one of these threads, someone linked a half dozen studies that showed different results on the impact of rail stations being added to a neighborhood. The one consistent was that it tended to increase crime if it was in an inner city neighborhood. In other areas, different studies reached different conclusions-less, more, the same.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top