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Old 09-10-2015, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Georgia
1,451 posts, read 1,351,128 times
Reputation: 1055

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Let me say, its so bad, I find it hard to believe. If it really is that bad, heads need to roll. Some managers have been asleep at the switch.
Me too. My immediate response to just the title of the article was "There's just no way!"
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Old 09-10-2015, 01:29 PM
 
Location: NW Atlanta
5,010 posts, read 3,499,291 times
Reputation: 2653
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3mpy View Post
[B


So what is the reason? Classism is my guess. If you can't build yourself up, keep those around you down.
I'd chalk it up to ignorance as well.
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Old 09-10-2015, 01:36 PM
 
188 posts, read 122,221 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3mpy View Post
"Why is MARTA so controversial?"

I have no idea. The very people it could/would help the most are against it.

It's not about the money. At 1% tax rate, even if you made $100k and spent every bit of it (something I would advise against), you would be spend $1000/yr on Marta. Assuming you saved 1hr/day during your commute, you would "buy" that money back in less than a month.


So what is the reason? Classism is my guess. If you can't build yourself up, keep those around you down.
Wait... your working assumption is that MARTA saves everyone in Fulton and Dekalb Counties 1 hour every day?

LOL.

You might want to reevaluate that one chief.

-DMG out
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Old 09-10-2015, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,288,419 times
Reputation: 4205
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
When freeways were laid out back then, there was little local input, it was decided at the state or federal level as to the route. Between the 50's-70's Gwinnett County was a rural county, so there was little need for more freeways. Gwinnett did benefit from the freeing the freeways program where 85 was widened to become one of the widest roadways in the nation.
Well a few points...

First and foremost, you have entirely missing the point I was raising by bringing this up. Gwinnett County HAS invested a considerable amount of resources that Dekalb didn't have to. Dekalb has built for them a number of freeways criss-crossing their county and under-invested parts of their own county network.
That isn't being selfish, but it is facing a different reality.

85 did recieve some benefit from freeing the freeways, but again you're ignoring the comparison. Central Dekalb and Fulton under-invested their arterial road network any utilized the freeways. Those freeways do not exist for the sole discretion of non-MARTA counties as you might make it seem. Gwinnett never got the benefit Dekalb had where most parts of the county were in close proximity to some federally funded freeway.

So I fail to see it as selfish as you characterized it as another county uses its resources differently when they also don't get the same benefits as a more older developed county.


Lastly, there is a huge problem with this vague depiction that locals were entirely ignored when the freeways were built. There were local revolts and backlashes and no not everyone was happy, but parts were also built with widespread popularity too. At that time what we call suburbs now didn't exist and what we call 'intown' now were suburbs then. My great grandfather actually lived in a neighborhood that had a freeway built next to it at that time inside the city of Atlanta not too far from Downtown. It actually did remove a few homes and one small road connection in the back of the neighborhood.

It was largely seen as a good thing, at that time, because the arterial roads were clogged up. He was in support of the freeway not against it. I mention this, because the situation is not nearly as black and white as you lay it out to be.
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Old 09-10-2015, 01:45 PM
 
9,933 posts, read 6,939,290 times
Reputation: 3026
DMG - What's your calculation on how much time is saved by MARTA taking 200,000 cars off the road every day?
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Old 09-10-2015, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
149 posts, read 124,785 times
Reputation: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt View Post
Wait... your working assumption is that MARTA saves everyone in Fulton and Dekalb Counties 1 hour every day?

LOL.

You might want to reevaluate that one chief.

-DMG out


Specifically, I'm referring to Cobb and Gwinnett: Those that can get to work in 1.5hrs on a good day. Over 2hr on a bad. I'm not sure why you inferred "every person in DeKalb and Fulton county".

From North Fulton to Atlanta, you only save about 20min in travel time. However, my significant other was able to "clock in" on the train as she answered emails. So in reality your time savings are (time less in traffic)+(times less in office).

Anyways, take care "chief".
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:06 PM
 
188 posts, read 122,221 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3mpy View Post
Specifically, I'm referring to Cobb and Gwinnett: Those that can get to work in 1.5hrs on a good day. Over 2hr on a bad. I'm not sure why you inferred "every person in DeKalb and Fulton county".

From North Fulton to Atlanta, you only save about 20min in travel time. However, my significant other was able to "clock in" on the train as she answered emails. So in reality your time savings are (time less in traffic)+(times less in office).

Anyways, take care "chief".
Well 100% of that population is paying for it and not getting the benefit you are trying to sell. There is a very small population that could even save 30 minutes with MARTA let alone 1 hour.

That was just an awful, awful post, sport.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,209 posts, read 16,245,820 times
Reputation: 4924
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Well a few points...

First and foremost, you have entirely missing the point I was raising by bringing this up. Gwinnett County HAS invested a considerable amount of resources that Dekalb didn't have to. Dekalb has built for them a number of freeways criss-crossing their county and under-invested parts of their own county network.
That isn't being selfish, but it is facing a different reality.

85 did recieve some benefit from freeing the freeways, but again you're ignoring the comparison. Central Dekalb and Fulton under-invested their arterial road network any utilized the freeways. Those freeways do not exist for the sole discretion of non-MARTA counties as you might make it seem. Gwinnett never got the benefit Dekalb had where most parts of the county were in close proximity to some federally funded freeway.

So I fail to see it as selfish as you characterized it as another county uses its resources differently when they also don't get the same benefits as a more older developed county.


Lastly, there is a huge problem with this vague depiction that locals were entirely ignored when the freeways were built. There were local revolts and backlashes and no not everyone was happy, but parts were also built with widespread popularity too. At that time what we call suburbs now didn't exist and what we call 'intown' now were suburbs then. My great grandfather actually lived in a neighborhood that had a freeway built next to it at that time inside the city of Atlanta not too far from Downtown. It actually did remove a few homes and one small road connection in the back of the neighborhood.

It was largely seen as a good thing, at that time, because the arterial roads were clogged up. He was in support of the freeway not against it. I mention this, because the situation is not nearly as black and white as you lay it out to be.
I agree with you that Fulton, Atlanta, and DeKalb underinvested in their arterial road networks.
Largely seen as good, by who? Those that were moving out of the city or those that had easy access, while not losing their homes. It is known that freeway construction largely targeted black residential areas or attempted to create a barrier between white and black areas. I-20 split the West End, 75/85 and 20 interchange wiped out Washington-Rawson neighborhood.
If the freeway network was not built, they would have invested more in the arterial network.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
149 posts, read 124,785 times
Reputation: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt View Post
Well 100% of that population is paying for it and not getting the benefit you are trying to sell. There is a very small population that could even save 30 minutes with MARTA let alone 1 hour.

That was just an awful, awful post, sport.
Your hyperbolic argument leads me to believe that your issue is with taxed societies in general.

Will 100% of the population benefit? Of course not, very few things will ever benefit 100% of a population.

Will a large population benefit from Marta expansion? Yes. Maybe not directly via a seat on a train, but for every person seated on a train, in Atlanta's case, that is one less car on the road for practical purposes. That concept will benefit a large majority of the remaining populace that commutes to work by the main roadway arteries.

Good to see this all a game to you.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,288,419 times
Reputation: 4205
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I agree with you that Fulton, Atlanta, and DeKalb underinvested in their arterial road networks.
Largely seen as good, by who? Those that were moving out of the city or those that had easy access, while not losing their homes. It is known that freeway construction largely targeted black residential areas or attempted to create a barrier between white and black areas. I-20 split the West End, 75/85 and 20 interchange wiped out Washington-Rawson neighborhood.
If the freeway network was not built, they would have invested more in the arterial network.
By people in the city, like my great grandfather. There were huge transportation woes on the arterial streets as they were never built to handle the auto-revolution and Atlanta has notoriously narrow streets. The freeways were seen as a fix to this. Prior to that there were concerns on how to fix the arterial roads as the right of ways were so small and it would still lead to widespread destruction of key neighborhood commercial nodes built around pre-existing arterial roads.

You're making the assumption that freeways initially were supported by people in homes that hadn't been built yet. It is a chicken-egg scenario, yet there was still some widespread support for freeways in that era as they were seen (for better and worse) as the way of the future.
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