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Old 09-10-2015, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,147 posts, read 16,140,747 times
Reputation: 4894

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
By people in the city, like my great grandfather. There were huge transportation woes on the arterial streets as they were never built to handle the auto-revolution and Atlanta has notoriously narrow streets. The freeways were seen as a fix to this. Prior to that there were concerns on how to fix the arterial roads as the right of ways were so small and it would still lead to widespread destruction of key neighborhood commercial nodes built around pre-existing arterial roads.

You're making the assumption that freeways initially were supported by people in homes that hadn't been built yet. It is a chicken-egg scenario, yet there was still some widespread support for freeways in that era as they were seen (for better and worse) as the way of the future.
Did your grandfather remember the extensive trolley network?
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Old 09-10-2015, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,253,707 times
Reputation: 4205
Quote:
Originally Posted by st3mpy View Post
Specifically, I'm referring to Cobb and Gwinnett: Those that can get to work in 1.5hrs on a good day. Over 2hr on a bad. I'm not sure why you inferred "every person in DeKalb and Fulton county".

From North Fulton to Atlanta, you only save about 20min in travel time. However, my significant other was able to "clock in" on the train as she answered emails. So in reality your time savings are (time less in traffic)+(times less in office).

Anyways, take care "chief".
Well you need to be careful here.

You just made a very strong assumption that is incorrect and leads to division in potential support.

Most people in Cobb and Gwinnett do not take 1.5 hours to get to work. You're likely assuming most people from the far reaches of those counties are trying to get downtown, they aren't and this is an important topic no matter what we do going into the future.

Most people in those counties, also work in those counties. They actually have some of the quickest commutes around, but the answer to this is very spotty. It is all about proximity between living areas and job areas. All counties, including Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, and Gwinnett have areas they are over-saturated with homes and a lack of jobs nearby and have some pretty horrible commutes. All counties have some sizable job bases with dense residential areas nearby with some much closer commutes.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,253,707 times
Reputation: 4205
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Did your grandfather remember the extensive trolley network?
yup! (and it was my great grandfather, he died several years back) He worked as a CPA downtown.

From the stories I heard it was horribly over crowded, congested, and slow too. That is just a factor of growing success of the city.

When cars came around they were wildly popular, but also quickly clogged up the roads really quick. He would then move into one of the first few neighborhoods in the city to have garages in the backyard, but that was well before the freeways.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,147 posts, read 16,140,747 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
yup! (and it was my great grandfather, he died several years back) He worked as a CPA downtown.

From the stories I heard it was horribly over crowded, congested, and slow too. That is just a factor of growing success of the city.

When cars came around they were wildly popular, but also quickly clogged up the roads really quick. He would then move into one of the first few neighborhoods in the city to have garages in the backyard, but that was well before the freeways.
They were quick until cars became cheap enough for the masses to own, then trolleys had to share the road with cars, which slowed the trolleys down, therefore reducing ridership.
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Old 09-10-2015, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,253,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
They were quick until cars became cheap enough for the masses to own, then trolleys had to share the road with cars, which slowed the trolleys down, therefore reducing ridership.
not quite true actually. They were not considered quick by today's standards, but perhaps back then relative to walking. They moved slowly and made frequent stops and also got congested and over crowded.

They were run by private companies that didn't always keep frequent schedules on all routes and they often chose to only operate only if they could fill the car up.

I get it, you want to push the pro-transit thing and only look at the car in a negative light, but in doing so you're forgetting real aspects of history and ignoring why cars became so popular... so quick too.

The problem is both network were and would continue to be overwhelmed by the growth the region had and has had. People had to go somewhere and people had to get around somehow
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:23 PM
 
188 posts, read 121,732 times
Reputation: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
They were quick until cars became cheap enough for the masses to own, then trolleys had to share the road with cars, which slowed the trolleys down, therefore reducing ridership.
Given this (and common sense) wouldn't one think Atlanta would've learned form this and put the new streetcar on roads without dedicated lanes. The current setup is foolish.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
5,560 posts, read 5,360,169 times
Reputation: 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if there are 500 threads on MARTA in this forum.

How come it is such a huge topic of discussion?




(And yes, I'm adding to to it with this thread).
I'm not even from Atlanta and I can tell you. It is because no one wants to pay for infrastructure that they are not going to use. No different than any other public transportation system anywhere else in the country.

It is the same thing here. No one wants to pay for The Tide. Sure, people should want other people to come into their neighborhood but this is America people are racist, classist, and xenophobic. People only want other people like themselves to come into their neighborhood. They don't want anyone else. People are perfectly okay with getting in their cars, and sitting in traffic. Then when they're stuck in gridlock for an hour to go two miles they want to talk about public transportation but by then it is too late to do anything about it.

Of course supporters always talk about TOD. TOD. The reality is that TOD might happen 20, 30, or 50 years after the fact.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:41 PM
 
9,907 posts, read 6,891,298 times
Reputation: 3012
Yet most people seem to have no problem with much, much more of their taxes going to pay for roads and highways.

That's the thing I don't get.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,552 posts, read 8,612,923 times
Reputation: 5052
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Yet most people seem to have no problem with much, much more of their taxes going to pay for roads and highways.

That's the thing I don't get.
That's because "most" people drive their cars on the roads and highways - a lot. They don't mind paying more for something that is life-valuable rather than less for something that is essentially irrelevant to them. It's pretty straightforward if you think about it.
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:54 PM
 
Location: ATL -> HOU
4,129 posts, read 3,220,417 times
Reputation: 3149
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
That's because "most" people drive their cars on the roads and highways - a lot. They don't mind paying more for something that is life-valuable rather than less for something that is essentially irrelevant to them. It's pretty straightforward if you think about it.
And because the hamburger, fries and coke I just had all were transported by roads. This computer I'm typing on was transported by road (for at least some of the trip at least), etc. Heavy rail is great for people moving but it doesn't take care of freight. I'm no logistics expert so I don't know why more isn't taken by rail instead of road but still, roads are important investments.
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