Paces Nightmare (Smyrna, Vinings: 2015, Home Depot, live in)

[lorilove]

Okay - here is the latest info I have received about the Cumberland UMC property in Smyrna/Vinings

PacesNightmare.com - No Z87 and No Shopping Center

If this link does not work, try typing it in directly which is what I had to do.

[evannole]

Thanks for posting. This is interesting. As I suspected and mentioned on here a while back, the site is, indeed, awkwardly shaped and consequently the buildings don't fit on the parcel very well, and certainly another light on this stretch of Paces Ferry would be a bad idea.

I no longer live in the area, but drive through here almost every day, and agree with most of the points raised on this website protesting the development. As much as I would like to see a Trader Joe's or something similar along this stretch - would be super convenient on my way home - I don't think this parcel is the right fit. It's just too tight and awkward. I always disliked going to vote at the church when it was my polling place, as it was really quite a mess to get in and out of there.

As an aside, the protest website could use some professional refinement. Screaming in print isn't particularly constructive.

[ElleKaye]

My first thought was where bout? I could not think of a spot on Paces Ferry available. Now, I see it's the church, and I think I had to vote there once.

I can totally understand how the residents would not like it too much. You have to be doing a good 75 mph already not to get rear ended geting on 285 from Paces Ferry which is quite a feat considering how congested the traffic on the ramp that you're almost taking off from a dead start.

The worst part is around the office parks on Cumberland Pkwy between Cumberland Blvd and Paces Ferry. Spring Hill was like a dream because it seems fewer people knew about it, but I see that's about to change.

I have a question though - do you think may have something to do with Home Depot's headquarters? I remember reading in the past year or so that they were planning to expand. Seems the easiest play to do it would be across the street.

[DaBurgh]

Yea, all that info and no mention of exactly where on Paces

[lorilove]

Originally Posted by DaBurgh

Yea, all that info and no mention of exactly where on Paces

For those of us familiar with the property it is right here.


https://goo.gl/maps/RsErz

[cwkimbro]

Oh dear Lord...

It is so hard to take this seriously.

This is like MASSIVE, embellished, enormous, and... over-exaggerated nimby-ism at its worse. Just read the tone and way they play this thing.

The development in question is only a bit over 30k sq ft in retail space in total and a 156 unit senior complex and it it is at a an intersection of two large roads next to a freeway on a fairly large lot. This is a laughably small grocery store we're talking about here. We're talking something less than double the size of a typical new CVS or Rite-Aid store, not even something like a full-size kroger and they a fear-mongering a future Wal-Mart. It also looks like the site plan has room for 5 other small 1,800 to 6,000 sq ft stores, one of which looks like a bank with a drive thru.

In comparison, a typical Kroger is 100,000 to 130,000 sq. ft. to give this proper perspective.

This is not a large grocery store, it is a tiny one. It isn't 3 different strip malls, it is only 5 store fronts.... 2 of which are standalone (so 1 - 3 store strip mall?). The 3 shop strip mall is about the size of 1.5 Panera Breads from across the street.

Ultimately from a planning perspective what they are saying fails on many levels. It is in an area with an existing concentration of people and jobs. It is near an existing critical mass of already built infrastructure resources. There are plenty of divided multi-lane roads in the area. It is in immediate proximity to a local freeway interchange.

This is exactly where you want denser housing and commercial development to be concentrated from the get-go... not further away from these resources forcing people to drive further on average.

.... And this development is not near as large/dense as they are making it out to be.

This seems like the biggest over reaction to a grocery store, a senior home, and some small mini-strip malls I have seen in in some time. They are really over playing this and over-worrying themselves more than they need to. It just sounds like an adjacent homeowner is desperate to stir up others in the area, because they don't want it to be behind their back yard. Still much of what this site says isn't really in tune to reality, just a rash over reaction.

http://zoning.comdev.cobbcountyga.go...g_Analysis.pdf

Page 8 if someone wants to see the proposed details w/o exaggerations.

Really the only things I would nit-pik over are the buffer with exactly just 4 residential properties adjacent properties, sidewalk integration, and possibly the water run-off plan.... and I say that mostly because the scan on their application from the county is a bit blurry.

[lorilove]

In comparison, a typical Kroger is 100,000 to 130,000 sq. ft. to give this
proper perspective.

The typical Publix/Kroger is 46,000 sq. ft. with the newer/expanded Krogers at 100,000 sq. ft. 130,000 is not typical.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Oh dear Lord...

It is so hard to take this seriously.

This is like MASSIVE, embellished, enormous, and... over-exaggerated nimby-ism at its worse. Just read the tone and way they play this thing.

The development in question is only a bit over 30k sq ft in retail space in total and a 156 unit senior complex and it it is at a an intersection of two large roads next to a freeway on a fairly large lot. This is a laughably small grocery store we're talking about here. We're talking something less than double the size of a typical new CVS or Rite-Aid store, not even something like a full-size kroger and they a fear-mongering a future Wal-Mart. It also looks like the site plan has room for 5 other small 1,800 to 6,000 sq ft stores, one of which looks like a bank with a drive thru.

In comparison, a typical Kroger is 100,000 to 130,000 sq. ft. to give this proper perspective.

This is not a large grocery store, it is a tiny one. It isn't 3 different strip malls, it is only 5 store fronts.... 2 of which are standalone (so 1 - 3 store strip mall?). The 3 shop strip mall is about the size of 1.5 Panera Breads from across the street.

Ultimately from a planning perspective what they are saying fails on many levels. It is in an area with an existing concentration of people and jobs. It is near an existing critical mass of already built infrastructure resources. There are plenty of divided multi-lane roads in the area. It is in immediate proximity to a local freeway interchange.

This is exactly where you want denser housing and commercial development to be concentrated from the get-go... not further away from these resources forcing people to drive further on average.

.... And this development is not near as large/dense as they are making it out to be.

This seems like the biggest over reaction to a grocery store, a senior home, and some small mini-strip malls I have seen in in some time. They are really over playing this and over-worrying themselves more than they need to. It just sounds like an adjacent homeowner is desperate to stir up others in the area, because they don't want it to be behind their back yard. Still much of what this site says isn't really in tune to reality, just a rash over reaction.

http://zoning.comdev.cobbcountyga.go...g_Analysis.pdf

Page 8 if someone wants to see the proposed details w/o exaggerations.

Really the only things I would nit-pik over are the buffer with exactly just 4 residential properties adjacent properties, sidewalk integration, and possibly the water run-off plan.... and I say that mostly because the scan on their application from the county is a bit blurry.

Good analysis. My main issue is the potential addition of another light on Paces Ferry, probably no more than 150 yards from the ones at Spring Hill Parkway and Spring Hill Road.

I wonder if they'll reveal the name of the grocery vendor. If it were something attractive and lacking in the area, like Trader Joe's, that could help sway public opinion.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by evannole

Good analysis. My main issue is the potential addition of another light on Paces Ferry, probably no more than 150 yards from the ones at Spring Hill Parkway and Spring Hill Road.

I wonder if they'll reveal the name of the grocery vendor. If it were something attractive and lacking in the area, like Trader Joe's, that could help sway public opinion.

It is a good question and a good point. I wouldn't add another traffic light if I was a county traffic planner, but to be fair... I don't see an added traffic light drawn on their zoning request to the county.

If that has been requested, it must be somewhere else.

They could not cut off Simpson Rd to Spring Hill Rd to allow access to a light there, but I'm pretty sure they are cutting it off merely to gain approval from neighbors

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by lorilove

The typical Publix/Kroger is 46,000 sq. ft. with the newer/expanded Krogers at 100,000 sq. ft. 130,000 is not typical.

You can try to source that 46k if you want, but it is not very accurate for most Kroger's in this area.

The Kroger Co cited that most new Kroger's they have made in the last several years were 100,000 to 130,000 sq ft. Admittedly, you're right the older stores are smaller, but they are not that much smaller.... especially around here.

The nearby Publix is just under 100,000 sq ft and an existing nearby Kroger built in 1980 is close to 80k sq ft.

But we are splitting hairs here, because....

....in comparison this website is calling this a "large grocery store," so that is exactly what I'm comparing it to. The reality is for it to be a large standard grocery store it would need to be 100,000 sq ft to 130,000 sq ft., which is typical for a new Public or Kroger.

In contrast a CVS protype corner store is just over 12k sq ft and this proposal is for a 20k sq ft grocery store.

I think I have fairly accurately address the reality of how big this really is, as opposed to calling it a large grocery store and fear mongering the comparison that it could become a Wal-Mart.