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Old 09-11-2015, 12:38 AM
 
240 posts, read 161,070 times
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More people that our infrastructure can't support. No thank you.
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,181 posts, read 16,194,283 times
Reputation: 4913
How much further out can we build? The jobs are not out that far, commuting from Paulding into Cobb is already awful, same for communities along 316. Are people suppose to wake up @ 4am to start driving? As far as redeveloping existing development, we could easily transform low density shopping centers, with interior streets, apartments, garages, etc. all without having to tear down the existing buildings. In many low density communities, the sewer/water lines, power lines, and roads exist. Upgrading these would be cheaper than building new infrastructure.
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:17 AM
 
Location: O4W
3,744 posts, read 3,538,307 times
Reputation: 2045
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
How much further out can we build? The jobs are not out that far, commuting from Paulding into Cobb is already awful, same for communities along 316. Are people suppose to wake up @ 4am to start driving? As far as redeveloping existing development, we could easily transform low density shopping centers, with interior streets, apartments, garages, etc. all without having to tear down the existing buildings. In many low density communities, the sewer/water lines, power lines, and roads exist. Upgrading these would be cheaper than building new infrastructure.

It's plenty of parking lots that can be turned into housing in the city.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:13 AM
bu2
 
8,981 posts, read 5,685,699 times
Reputation: 3540
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
How much further out can we build? The jobs are not out that far, commuting from Paulding into Cobb is already awful, same for communities along 316. Are people suppose to wake up @ 4am to start driving? As far as redeveloping existing development, we could easily transform low density shopping centers, with interior streets, apartments, garages, etc. all without having to tear down the existing buildings. In many low density communities, the sewer/water lines, power lines, and roads exist. Upgrading these would be cheaper than building new infrastructure.
Jobs are moving out. Perimeter Mall is one of our biggest employment areas. Alpharetta has a big tech center. Inner cities aren't bleeding jobs anymore, but the growth is still heading out. That's the trend all around the country. The urbanists want to deny it because the cities are doing better than they have been, but the biggest rate of growth is still outside the center cities.

That's one of my concerns with putting MARTA all the way out to Alpharetta. We encourage high density employment well outside the city. The counter-argument is that its already getting dense there and we get two way traffic on the trains.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:21 AM
bu2
 
8,981 posts, read 5,685,699 times
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There's all the talk about millennials and high tech wanting to be in the city, but where is the Bay Area's tech home? In San Jose, not in San Francisco. Where is Microsoft HQ-in Redmond, with big offices in Kirkland, not in downtown Seattle. Austin's high tech? Its mostly located well north and well south of downtown.

And last year there was more office development by Exxon-Mobil than in just about any city in the country but NYC. Where was that? 20 miles north of downtown Houston while they were abandoning their main office downtown along with other offices closer in. Businesses are tending to abandon the skyscrapers and go for more of a mid-rise campus feel to improve collaboration. New non-residential high rises are few and far between these days.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:30 AM
 
9,918 posts, read 6,916,157 times
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bu2 - You are stuck in 1992.

Jobs aren't fleeing the core for the suburbs anymore. Sure plenty of new offices are opening up there but the trend is decidedly reversing back towards intown with Midtown and Buckhead leading the way.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:37 AM
bu2
 
8,981 posts, read 5,685,699 times
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Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
bu2 - You are stuck in 1992.

Jobs aren't fleeing the core for the suburbs anymore. Sure plenty of new offices are opening up there but the trend is decidedly reversing back towards intown with Midtown and Buckhead leading the way.
You are in denial about 2015. Look at job growth rates, not anecdotes. As I said, there is job growth in the inner cities and its better than it was before, but its still faster in the suburbs.
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Old 09-11-2015, 08:40 AM
 
Location: 98004 / 30327
556 posts, read 453,688 times
Reputation: 882
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
There's all the talk about millennials and high tech wanting to be in the city, but where is the Bay Area's tech home? In San Jose, not in San Francisco. Where is Microsoft HQ-in Redmond, with big offices in Kirkland, not in downtown Seattle. Austin's high tech? Its mostly located well north and well south of downtown.

And last year there was more office development by Exxon-Mobil than in just about any city in the country but NYC. Where was that? 20 miles north of downtown Houston while they were abandoning their main office downtown along with other offices closer in. Businesses are tending to abandon the skyscrapers and go for more of a mid-rise campus feel to improve collaboration. New non-residential high rises are few and far between these days.
Actually, this is not entirely true. If you go to visit these Bay Area tech company campuses, you'll see that they all offer private shuttle service into San Francisco. That's because the tech people want to live in the city. And most of the younger employees do. Same is true up here in Seattle.

Also, plenty of start ups are buying office space in the CBDs of SF and Seattle. And big companies are refocusing on in-town offices as well. Amazon is a perfect example of this. They're building a massive complex over many city blocks in Seattle's South Lake Union district.

Most of these sprawling suburban tech campuses exist where they do because they were built decades ago. Before the "millennial generation" was ever coined and many of the people of that generation were even born.

Last edited by paris-on-ponce; 09-11-2015 at 08:53 AM..
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Old 09-11-2015, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,181 posts, read 16,194,283 times
Reputation: 4913
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Jobs are moving out. Perimeter Mall is one of our biggest employment areas. Alpharetta has a big tech center. Inner cities aren't bleeding jobs anymore, but the growth is still heading out. That's the trend all around the country. The urbanists want to deny it because the cities are doing better than they have been, but the biggest rate of growth is still outside the center cities.

That's one of my concerns with putting MARTA all the way out to Alpharetta. We encourage high density employment well outside the city. The counter-argument is that its already getting dense there and we get two way traffic on the trains.
Um, NCR, Microsoft Innovation Hub, Coke, Switchyards, all the tech jobs at PCM, Tech Square.
Yes Perimeter Center is a major employment center, but it has rail to it. North Fulton is a major employment center too, which is why it is important it gets served by rail.
I would not say more jobs are moving intown, but majority of the job growth is not outside the core anymore.
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Old 09-11-2015, 10:43 AM
 
221 posts, read 170,895 times
Reputation: 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Um, NCR, Microsoft Innovation Hub, Coke, Switchyards, all the tech jobs at PCM, Tech Square.
Yes Perimeter Center is a major employment center, but it has rail to it. North Fulton is a major employment center too, which is why it is important it gets served by rail.
I would not say more jobs are moving intown, but majority of the job growth is not outside the core anymore.

I think the new normal or reality for Metro Atlanta is that the city "core" is no longer just Atlanta. I'd argue that the Perimeter area and Alpharetta are themselves city "cores".
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