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Old 09-24-2015, 02:00 PM
 
Location: ATL -> HOU
4,134 posts, read 3,282,212 times
Reputation: 3159

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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
Forest Park High School
If every other race can send their kids to school in Clayton what's so special about whites.
It's not an issue of will or won't, it's why would they want to if they can live in a better school district?
Compare Forest Park to Brookwood, Parkview or even Dacula. Ignoring the location, why would anyone choose Forest Park over the others? None of those three Gwinnett schools have majority white populations, just plurality (48%, 39%,40%). At Dacula, whites are 40% of the population and blacks are 35%, that's pretty close. In a class of 20, that's 1 more white student (8) than black (7). So why choose a high school like Forest Park when there are others in the metro that score much much higher? If you want something in the south metro, let's look at Riverdale compared to Sandy Creek or Fayette County high schools. Why choose Riverdale when you can live just a few miles away and go to a better school? At both of those other schools whites are a minority (28%). By comparison, blacks are right at 50%.

It becomes a little clearer when you look at the amount that are considered economically disadvantaged. Forest Park and Riverdale have a lot more students on free or reduced price lunch. Their families don't have the option of being selective in their school choices. I'm sure there are a lot of people at Forest Park HS that would choose somewhere else if they could afford it. It just isn't a good school.
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Wandering in the Dothraki sea
1,342 posts, read 1,225,161 times
Reputation: 3227
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
Forest Park High School
Black 46%
Hispanic 36%
Asian 10%
White 4%
Two or more races 3%
Please tell me how white people could feel uncomfortable here. If every other race can send their kids to school in Clayton what's so special about whites.
Another poster summed it up. Whites are comfortable with some diversity, but schools always go downhill when it turns minority-majority (sorry, but this is just generally true) as someone with a background in education along with many of my close friends, there are cultural differences between Asian, white, and black families. White people and Asians tend to place more importance on academic excellence and hold their children to higher expectations. Again, I'm speaking very broadly here, this is just mine (and others) observations in the field.

Why would anyone with the means want to send their kid to a school in Clayton vs any school just over the line in Fayette?

I know you like to look at Clayton through rose colored glasses but there's a reason why Delta's CEO agrees: he said lack of good schools around the airport heavily discouraged northwest employees from relocating to Atlanta. Not being honest about this isn't solving the problem.
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Old 09-24-2015, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Valdosta (Atlanta Native)
3,458 posts, read 2,876,053 times
Reputation: 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedimenjerry View Post
It's not an issue of will or won't, it's why would they want to if they can live in a better school district?
Compare Forest Park to Brookwood, Parkview or even Dacula. Ignoring the location, why would anyone choose Forest Park over the others? None of those three Gwinnett schools have majority white populations, just plurality (48%, 39%,40%). At Dacula, whites are 40% of the population and blacks are 35%, that's pretty close. In a class of 20, that's 1 more white student (8) than black (7). So why choose a high school like Forest Park when there are others in the metro that score much much higher? If you want something in the south metro, let's look at Riverdale compared to Sandy Creek or Fayette County high schools. Why choose Riverdale when you can live just a few miles away and go to a better school? At both of those other schools whites are a minority (28%). By comparison, blacks are right at 50%.

It becomes a little clearer when you look at the amount that are considered economically disadvantaged. Forest Park and Riverdale have a lot more students on free or reduced price lunch. Their families don't have the option of being selective in their school choices. I'm sure there are a lot of people at Forest Park HS that would choose somewhere else if they could afford it. It just isn't a good school.
What does Forest Park lack that other schools have. They have the same technology, textbook, and teach the same curriculum so what's better about the the schools you mentioned. A smart kid from Forest Park is not any worse than one from Sandy Creek or Fayette County High. Actually the kid from Forest Park is probably more socially aware than ones at the other schools because of their economic situations.
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Wandering in the Dothraki sea
1,342 posts, read 1,225,161 times
Reputation: 3227
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
What does Forest Park lack that other schools have. They have the same technology, textbook, and teach the same curriculum so what's better about the the schools you mentioned. A smart kid from Forest Park is not any worse than one from Sandy Creek or Fayette County High. Actually the kid from Forest Park is probably more socially aware than ones at the other schools because of their economic situations.
If you think similar curriculums, textbooks and technology means the schools turn out the same quality of students, I can tell you've never been a teacher.
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:27 PM
 
Location: ATL -> HOU
4,134 posts, read 3,282,212 times
Reputation: 3159
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
What does Forest Park lack that other schools have. They have the same technology, textbook, and teach the same curriculum so what's better about the the schools you mentioned. A smart kid from Forest Park is not any worse than one from Sandy Creek or Fayette County High. Actually the kid from Forest Park is probably more socially aware than ones at the other schools because of their economic situations.
Good schools have good resources, good administration (district wide and at the school), good teachers, parental involvement, and student dedication. I don't doubt Forest Park (or other high schools in Clayton) have near the same resources. I also think as long as the books are usable, the building isn't falling apart, there's enough paper, desk space, etc., resources don't matter as much. Some schools across the world kick our butt with fewer resources. Clayton administration is probably much better off than a few years ago, can't really comment on that or school leadership. There are a lot of different teachers and even at a good school you can get stuck with a crappy teacher. Unfortunately once a school gets a bad rep it can be hard to attract top teachers. I had heard that Gwinnett was offering a $3,000 bonus to anyone signing on at Meadowcreek it's that hard to fill jobs. You also have difficult teachers where the students learn something or really easy teachers. Standards can differ even with the same curriculum. I had a coworker that went to Campbell in Cobb. He said he barely did anything and got nearly all As. Finally he did dual enrollment at a technical college so he would actually learn something and he is actually being challenged now.

Parental involvement and student dedication can often overlap. A lot of good students have no parental involvement at all. Some have parents constantly pushing them but still slack off. Still, many students with parents that push their children to succeed will do better. I met a lot of teachers last year from Gwinnett that gone to different schools. The differences in parenting and student culture can make a huge difference. Unfortunately in poorer districts this can be a challenge. With such a high number of students on free or reduced priced lunch, it's no secret Forest Park is lower income compared to other schools like in Fayette. Many parents are working odd jobs or odd hours. Harder to be a parent and help your child with hw if your shift is from 3pm to 11. That's just a fact of life in poorer areas. A lot of schools in Gwinnett struggle for this reason. This isn't to dump all on minority majority areas, rural schools also struggle. Go anywhere out in the country in GA and you'll see a lot of the same. I knew several people in college from a small town in Texas. High teen pregnancy rate, high drug use rates, broken families. Scores were pretty bad, near the same as Forest Park, free/reduced price lunch rates about the same. Only difference was this place was near 80% white and the rest mostly hispanic. Can tell your right now I'd never send a kid there. My friends even admitted during college how unprepared their high school made them. Only the very top students adapted well.
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Old 09-24-2015, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Valdosta (Atlanta Native)
3,458 posts, read 2,876,053 times
Reputation: 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
If you think similar curriculums, textbooks and technology means the schools turn out the same quality of students, I can tell you've never been a teacher.
So a straight F student in Cobb is better than one in Clayton because presumably there are more good than bad kids so everyone is automatically better off. This really makes absolutely no sense. Of course the majority of students in any Clayton school do worse because of the conditions of a low income household. That's why the honors program exists to teach the kids that want to learn. Any one student does not make or break the school it is the administration and resources available to students that will actually do their work and succeed. A ghetto kid from bankhead will not do better off just because you send him to a school where the majority is. A well tutored kid will not be worse off because you send him to a school where the majority is.
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Orange Blossom Trail
6,391 posts, read 4,595,203 times
Reputation: 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
Another poster summed it up. Whites are comfortable with some diversity, but schools always go downhill when it turns minority-majority (sorry, but this is just generally true) as someone with a background in education along with many of my close friends, there are cultural differences between Asian, white, and black families. White people and Asians tend to place more importance on academic excellence and hold their children to higher expectations. Again, I'm speaking very broadly here, this is just mine (and others) observations in the field.

Why would anyone with the means want to send their kid to a school in Clayton vs any school just over the line in Fayette?

I know you like to look at Clayton through rose colored glasses but there's a reason why Delta's CEO agrees: he said lack of good schools around the airport heavily discouraged northwest employees from relocating to Atlanta. Not being honest about this isn't solving the problem.
interesting
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Old 09-24-2015, 06:59 PM
 
Location: Orange Blossom Trail
6,391 posts, read 4,595,203 times
Reputation: 2593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryska View Post
I'm sorry. I'm having a difficult time being empathetic to white people's alleged discomfort being in the minority.

I have been the minority no matter where I go, or what the majority is, for damn near all my life. it's really not that big of a deal.
i think you are Asian correct? I wish there was more of the Asian and Latino-Hispanic perspective on City Data. Im glad you are here to speak up from a different point of view. Atlanta has a lot of Mexicans but it seems we never hear from them around here, just the blacks, whites and gays. Even these forums need more diversity.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:42 AM
 
1,979 posts, read 1,720,782 times
Reputation: 1244
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0nyxStation View Post
i think you are Asian correct? I wish there was more of the Asian and Latino-Hispanic perspective on City Data. Im glad you are here to speak up from a different point of view. Atlanta has a lot of Mexicans but it seems we never hear from them around here, just the blacks, whites and gays. Even these forums need more diversity.
Yep. And usually in context of demographics in Atlanta, we tend to fall in the "other" category, because everything skews black, white or Hispanic.
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Old 09-25-2015, 08:14 AM
 
Location: ATLANTA
1,930 posts, read 1,226,732 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tryska View Post
Yep. And usually in context of demographics in Atlanta, we tend to fall in the "other" category, because everything skews black, white or Hispanic.
I totally Agree... Its great to get some other views besides just the Black, White perspective that you always tend to get. Diversity is needed big time on these Forums
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