$370 million mini-city Halcyon pitched in Forsyth County (Atlanta, Sandy Springs: condos, how much)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It's erroneous to assume that people living in suburban areas all face long, grueling commutes into the central city. That's simply not the case.

In fact, most people who live in the city proper commute to work somewhere in the suburbs. So you may well give yourself a longer commute by living intown.

This is not the 1950s.

No, I was simply referring to commuting to North Fulton or Perimeter Center.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I think we can generally agree that most people, even those in the urban core, have cars. The only way to get around this is to simply not have a car at all. And the cost of keeping up a monthly MARTA pass would be much higher than tags and taxes on a vehicle.

And you're splitting hairs. You know darn well that living in Forsyth county is way cheaper, probably less than half as much, as living in the city. That money is not eaten back up by commuting costs. It just isn't, and I think you know that.

You are right, ATJTJL. Living in Forsyth is FAR less expensive than living, say, in Midtown. FAR. Commute coshmute. It is still FAR less.

For many of us who don't care to be able to take the train, bar hop, or eat out a lot, the expense savings can make the burbs ideal.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It's erroneous to assume that people living in suburban areas all face long, grueling commutes into the central city. That's simply not the case.

In fact, most people who live in the city proper commute to work somewhere in the suburbs. So you may well give yourself a longer commute by living intown.

This is not the 1950s.

Yeah, well, being someone with a reverse commute who drives up 400 north in the morning, I must note that a huge chunk of North Fulton and Forsyth people are indeed living that 1950's style life, living out in the safe and sheltered north burbs, but working in the city or at Perimeter. It's like a parking lot on the other side every morning, those poor saps all stuck in a long multi-hour slow crawl on the southbound side.

Whereas myself and most everyone I know with a reverse commute the other way, can usually just cruise, with no bad traffic, especially in the morning. Yeah, there are a lot of jobs in Alpharetta, and a chunk in Duluth as well, but by an overwhelming margin the worst car congestion is driving towards Atlanta in the AM, and away from it in the evening, on 75/85/400.

That's why I think that if the far north metro counties want to grow residentially, it should be balanced with job centers centered around places like Cumming and Gainesville, or balanced with corporate office developments included along with the residential/retail plans. The strain on existing Atlanta-area job centers is already ridiculous, and whenever they add residential in south Forsyth it just increases the traffic crunch.

And it's not like it's in a vacuum. All those cars coming to the city on the highway... where do you think they're all funneling into? On to local roads in town and onto 285. More cars is more cars, it affects the whole metro as a whole, via the domino effect of how arterials and overtaxed highways get backed up.

MARTA to N Fulton is going to help some, because then at least a chunk of North Fulton/ South Forsyth commuters can park & ride at the new stations and take the train. Unfortunately the I-85 and I-75 corridors still have no real mass transit commuter game plan. (Which they should have had decades ago.) I digress.

And honestly, we're still years away from new MARTA stations opening. I'd like to see new cities grow up in Georgia, instead of everything being one big sprawling region with everything centered on Atlanta.

[ATLTJL]

I think we all want several job centers.

But the reaction on this board is a mixed bag. For example, many people cheered NCR's move into town, but in reality, Atlanta should be begging NCR to stay in Duluth. Think about all the thousands of people who work there, who probably largely live in Duluth, Johns Creek, and Suwanee. You think they're going to sell their houses and rip their kids out of school because their employer made a new building? Nope....they'll join the swarm of cars heading back and forth to town every day!

It's true that more people, more jobs, equal more cars. I'd love for many of those jobs to be closer to where people live.

The thing our region has to do is decide how it really wants to grow. Do we want to encourage developments like this, which aim to put jobs, people, and retail together with access to a multi-use trail that could theoretically be used for bicycle commuting like the Beltline.....or do we want to encourage every employer to locate in the city and then complain that traffic is too bad?

Of course, things are going to grow the way they are going to. And until the city is able to offer reasonably priced places to live for families and what the majority of people would consider decent schools, you really can't complain about people choosing to live in places like Forsyth. Whining about it on some internet board isn't gong to fix it, but fixing local schools instead of pretending they are already good might.

[NorthAtlanta]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I think we all want several job centers.

But the reaction on this board is a mixed bag. For example, many people cheered NCR's move into town, but in reality, Atlanta should be begging NCR to stay in Duluth. Whining about it on some internet board isn't gong to fix it, but fixing local schools instead of pretending they are already good might.

+1. Fix the schools and families will automatically start moving into the city.

And there is nothing wrong with having multiple population centers and job centers.

If you observe the biggest metropolitan areas in US - NY has Manhattan, Brooklyn and several other boroughs not mentioning Parts of Connecticut and Northern NJ which have their own population and job centers like Jersey City/Newark, Hartford/Stamford and LA is like a replica of Atlanta but twice the size with several population and job centers. What's wrong with Atlanta growing the same way?

In the future I foresee Downtown/Midtown, Buckhead/Perimeter and the 400 corridor to be distinct population/job centers. People don't have to commute everyday from one population center to the other unless they need to do something out of their routine.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Lord, if this were being developed ITP, you guys would be throwing a victory party.

Originally Posted by arjay57

If this were being built intown people would be doing backflips.

You guys say this often but Atlantic station (well within the Perimeter) is a far better example of new urbanism and it is STILL to this day regularly criticized for its shortcomings.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It's erroneous to assume that people living in suburban areas all face long, grueling commutes into the central city. That's simply not the case.

In fact, most people who live in the city proper commute to work somewhere in the suburbs. So you may well give yourself a longer commute by living intown.

This is not the 1950s.

Yes its 2015. And due the sprawling nature of suburban Atlanta development, most people in N. Fulton/Forsyth will face a long grueling commute to work regardless of where they work.

By the way, 20 miles from Cumming will get you to the city of Roswell.

[ATLTJL]

Atlantic station (well within the Perimeter) is a far better example of new urbanism and it is STILL to this day regularly criticized for its shortcomings.

Not by me, it isn't.

The biggest complaint that I have about Atlantic Station is the terrible job they did with the townhomes, which are technically part of the development, but so far down in a ditch that all they really have a view of is a parking deck. If I recall, they were originally going to be much nicer, but the builder pulled out and they had to find a new one.

But aside from that, I think Atlantic Station is a great example of a development that was well done. Of course, it would be better if it was MARTA accessible, but they can't really do anything about that. Parking is good there, all things considered.

Anyone who complains about Atlantic Station would be well served to remember what was on that site before it was built.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

You guys say this often but Atlantic station (well within the Perimeter) is a far better example of new urbanism and it is STILL to this day regularly criticized for its shortcomings.

I really like Atlantic station and have been a booster of it from the get go.

[brownhornet]

People love talking about "it's not near Marta"....let's be realistic, Marta's reach in the metro absolutely SUCKS.