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Old 11-23-2016, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,559 posts, read 4,674,946 times
Reputation: 2284

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
For the cost of a 2.5 mile streetcar line with 4 creepy-crawly cars and minimal ridership we could have put 200 new, sleek, state of the art CNG buses on the streets of the city of Atlanta.

Think about it. They could go anywhere in the city and are not limited by tracks and overhead wires.

And don't tell me they'd be bunched up any worse than the durn streetcar on Peachtree street.

They'd also not attract development, and require piles of other expenses you don't factor in, like drivers, reserve drivers, human resources, mechanics, much higher fuel costs, much higher maintenance costs, etc.
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Old 11-23-2016, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,830 posts, read 7,211,766 times
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Buses can and should attract development, though. Because riders should be boarding them from permanent, nice, fixed stations that look like the streetcar stations, where you could have TOD built around that. Spaced 1/4 mile to 1/3 mile apart.

I love the streetcar stations. Imagine if every MARTA bus stop in the city (or metro) looked just like this, with its own unique name and signage, off-board fare collection, a shelter, plenty of standing room, and elevated like this for level boarding:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7554...7i13312!8i6656

And with the bus routes represented on maps that look like the streetcar route map, with station names along the map.
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:34 PM
 
32,004 posts, read 36,637,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
They'd also not attract development, and require piles of other expenses you don't factor in, like drivers, reserve drivers, human resources, mechanics, much higher fuel costs, much higher maintenance costs, etc.
Streetcars also require operators, supervisors, maintenance, mechanics, power, etc.

And how do you account for the huge surge in popularity and economic development we've seen in areas where there are no streetcars at all?
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,777,467 times
Reputation: 5702
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
Buses can and should attract development, though. Because riders should be boarding them from permanent, nice, fixed stations that look like the streetcar stations, where you could have TOD built around that. Spaced 1/4 mile to 1/3 mile apart.

I love the streetcar stations. Imagine if every MARTA bus stop in the city (or metro) looked just like this, with its own unique name and signage, off-board fare collection, a shelter, plenty of standing room, and elevated like this for level boarding:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7554...7i13312!8i6656

And with the bus routes represented on maps that look like the streetcar route map, with station names along the map.
BRT has been proven to attract development, see Cleveland HealthLine, bug it must have dedicated ROW, off board fare collection, and protected stations. We can't implement this on all bus routes, but can on major thoroughfares and hopefully get dedicated lanes. Looking forward to the implementation of ART and BRT lines from the MARTA sales tax increase.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,830 posts, read 7,211,766 times
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I am really curious what all features the ART and BRT lines will have, and what differences. Hopefully just the lack of dedicated lanes with ART, but it has all the other BRT features.
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Old 11-23-2016, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,559 posts, read 4,674,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Streetcars also require operators, supervisors, maintenance, mechanics, power, etc.
Not on the scale that 200 buses would.


Quote:
And how do you account for the huge surge in popularity and economic development we've seen in areas where there are no streetcars at all?
A lot of that has been attracted to areas with fixed-guideway transit such as MARTA heavy rail. Other such is general development.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Georgia
5,845 posts, read 6,135,190 times
Reputation: 3573
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
It's a tourist attraction, not serious transit. That's not a defense of the spending on it, but that's apparently what it is, because yeah, it's useless.

One thing I really don't like, is how they had to add butt ugly overhead power wires to an area that has underground wiring. Downtown was prettier to look at before those streetcar poles and cables.
It's not that bad. What were they supposed to do, put the live electrical wire in the ground?
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Old 11-24-2016, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,777,467 times
Reputation: 5702
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
I am really curious what all features the ART and BRT lines will have, and what differences. Hopefully just the lack of dedicated lanes with ART, but it has all the other BRT features.
That publication has been linked on the other thread.
MORE MARTA | MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR RAPID EXPANSION AND ENHANCEMENT
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Old 11-24-2016, 07:11 AM
 
643 posts, read 569,160 times
Reputation: 415
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Streetcars also require operators, supervisors, maintenance, mechanics, power, etc.

And how do you account for the huge surge in popularity and economic development we've seen in areas where there are no streetcars at all?
This post is so great.

Finally someone else gets it.
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Old 11-24-2016, 07:37 AM
 
32,004 posts, read 36,637,449 times
Reputation: 13269
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
I love the streetcar stations. Imagine if every MARTA bus stop in the city (or metro) looked just like this, with its own unique name and signage, off-board fare collection, a shelter, plenty of standing room, and elevated like this for level boarding:

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.7554...7i13312!8i6656

And with the bus routes represented on maps that look like the streetcar route map, with station names along the map.
Agree with that.

If we find that certain routes are are attracting heavy and consistent ridership beyond the capacity of buses, they could be considered for conversion to rail.

But it's nuts to put the cart before the horse.
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