Spaghetti Junction tops list of worst bottlenecks (Atlanta, Savannah: maintenance, tax)

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by evannole

Other cities also have more robust transit and still have terrible traffic and long journey times from point A to point B, regardless of mode of transportation.

We need both better roads and better transit, but only some are willing to admit that.

There isn't an "all or nothing" answer here...we need road AND transit improvements to help move people around and through Atlanta.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

There isn't an "all or nothing" answer here...we need road AND transit improvements to help move people around and through Atlanta.

Right. Road diets have shown to be effective road improvements. Most other road investments not so much.

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Right. Road diets have shown to be effective road improvements. Most other road investments not so much.

It depends on who you ask...many sources say the complete opposite. You have to read outside of your way of thinking sometimes to discover the truth. Road improvement aren't even NEARLY all bad, and transit $$ aren't even NEARLY all good. I'm lean toward transit, but I also realize that millions of cars need safe, accommodating roads - including mine.

This isn't a black and white issue...there is a good compromise somewhere but we have yet to find it. On a lighter note, I remember how impressed I was the first time I saw Spaghetti Junction back in the 80s. It was massive and scary and beautiful all at the same time.

[jsvh]

I take it to a dramatic point some, I am not saying we should rip out every road. But really, most of the major road improvements of the last 50 years have done more harm than good.

[2Easy]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

FREIGHT Bottlenecks.... Atlanta has a lot more passing through freight than LA or DC I bet. We are a major logistics/distribution hub and are served by the up and coming Savannah Port which is expected to grow even more aggressively with the completion of the deepening of Savannah harbor.

Without looking it up I would guess that the adjacent ports of Los Angeles/long beach are much busier than Savannah's port. The 710 fwy handles most port traffic and has several busy interchanges. The 5 fwy also has lots of freight traffic because it has major rail yards. Goods from China and Asia come into the port and are trucked and railed to the rest of the west and US.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Well, I would say that you CAN build yourself out of the problem.

Here's how:

Build an outer perimeter. Don't allow trucks on the inner one. Problem solved. Except for the outer perimeter, of course.

I don't think we can go for such tight restrictions. An outer perimeter would almost certainly be tolled, and the trucking companies would fiercely opposed being forced to drive such expensive routes.

What I've never understood is given how tech enabled logistics has become, why can't freight companies figure out how to not be at this intersection during rush hours?

We have legislated that they can't use I-85 inside the perimeter, can we put times on it? Any trucks on I-285 between 7am and 10am or 3pm-7pm get tickets?

I don't even see how it makes sense for the companies. Aren't they losing tons of money by having trucks sit in traffic?

I have wondered this as well.

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

There isn't an "all or nothing" answer here...we need road AND transit improvements to help move people around and through Atlanta.

Totally agreed with an all-of-the-above approach to transportation.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Well, I would say that you CAN build yourself out of the problem.

Here's how:

Build an outer perimeter. Don't allow trucks on the inner one. Problem solved. Except for the outer perimeter, of course.

What I've never understood is given how tech enabled logistics has become, why can't freight companies figure out how to not be at this intersection during rush hours?

We have legislated that they can't use I-85 inside the perimeter, can we put times on it? Any trucks on I-285 between 7am and 10am or 3pm-7pm get tickets?

I don't even see how it makes sense for the companies. Aren't they losing tons of money by having trucks sit in traffic?

Those drivers are trying to make a living and putting restrictions on them using the Atlanta Bypass is unfair. Why not put a limitation on the number of single-driver cars, as they are the majority of the traffic and crashes?

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Those drivers are trying to make a living and putting restrictions on them using the Atlanta Bypass is unfair. Why not put a limitation on the number of single-driver cars, as they are the majority of the traffic and crashes?

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see GDOT/SRTA start advocating tolling the ITP freeways sometime within the next 15 years.

[ATLTJL]

Because tractor trailers contribute way more to traffic on a per vehicle basis.

As was pointed out in the bicycle discussion thread, bicycle lanes will take much longer to get congested that car lanes because you can fit more bikes per square foot. Same thing here, how many cars can you fit in the same footprint as an 18 wheeler tractor trailer? At least 4 or 5.

Trucks take longer to accelerate and longer to brake, tying up traffic. Also, when the do crash, it can be devastating, causing multiple lane closure and sometimes the entire road.

Almost everything in this country moves by truck, so they are a vital part of our economy. However, all of our roads have absolutely tons of unused capacity: off-peak travel times. Have you ever used I-85 at 3am? It's smooth sailing. In fact, most of the time, the highway moves very well. It's only a very few peak travel times when it is tied up with traffic.

My point is, why can't truckers take advantage of all that unused capacity? I don't think it's out of line to tell them that if you can't get off the road by 7am, you're going to have to wait until 10am to get on it. They'll simply adjust.

And it's really just an extension of the restrictions we already have in place. 18 wheelers already can't use any highway inside I-285 unless they have intown deliveries, why couldn't we build another perimeter and do the same thing? It's no more unfair that what we've already done.

The drivers would likely make better livings because they would have more on-time deliveries. And since the average truck driver already earns $57,000 for a job that doesn't require any higher education, sorry, I just don't feel bad putting restrictions like that on them. They'll deal with it.

Drivers Ride High on Trucking Boom - WSJ

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Because tractor trailers contribute way more to traffic on a per vehicle basis.

As was pointed out in the bicycle discussion thread, bicycle lanes will take much longer to get congested that car lanes because you can fit more bikes per square foot. Same thing here, how many cars can you fit in the same footprint as an 18 wheeler tractor trailer? At least 4 or 5.

Trucks take longer to accelerate and longer to brake, tying up traffic. Also, when the do crash, it can be devastating, causing multiple lane closure and sometimes the entire road.

Almost everything in this country moves by truck, so they are a vital part of our economy. However, all of our roads have absolutely tons of unused capacity: off-peak travel times. Have you ever used I-85 at 3am? It's smooth sailing. In fact, most of the time, the highway moves very well. It's only a very few peak travel times when it is tied up with traffic.

My point is, why can't truckers take advantage of all that unused capacity? I don't think it's out of line to tell them that if you can't get off the road by 7am, you're going to have to wait until 10am to get on it. They'll simply adjust.

And it's really just an extension of the restrictions we already have in place. 18 wheelers already can't use any highway inside I-285 unless they have intown deliveries, why couldn't we build another perimeter and do the same thing? It's no more unfair that what we've already done.

The drivers would likely make better livings because they would have more on-time deliveries. And since the average truck driver already earns $57,000 for a job that doesn't require any higher education, sorry, I just don't feel bad putting restrictions like that on them. They'll deal with it.

Drivers Ride High on Trucking Boom - WSJ

That is up to the drivers and is not something GSP should be enforcing, they already do a poor job of enforcing the no thru trucks on all freeways ITP.