The effort to split Fulton County in two is back again (Atlanta: luxury, schools)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by skbl17

Eh...if a hypothetical "Milton County" contains Sandy Springs, I can imagine Milton either being grandfathered into or voting to remain part of MARTA. GA 400 traffic and the three Sandy Springs MARTA stations won't disappear simply because they're in a new county.

Plus, with an expansion up GA 400 already far along in the development process, I can't see Milton just saying "screw it" and cutting off all relations with MARTA.

Power wouldn't change. "Milton County" is serviced by Georgia Power, Sawnee EMC, and Cobb EMC, so unless Milton County decides to form its own power company and buy out the existing utilities' assets, power suppliers wouldn't change. Trash collection would either be provided by the county or outsourced to a private firm like Waste Management.

Not sure about the others...

- skbl17

Frankly, I don't see how a Milton County with Sandy Springs added possibly survives a voting rights challenge. If they used the old Milton County lines it might survive a challenge, but I don't see how it could with Sandy Springs.

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by bu2

The problem is that North Fulton gets short-changed on all the services. Its not about wealthy helping the poor. Its about the political power base in South Fulton not treating North Fulton fairly as well as the incompetence of the county. And somehow continuing to elect people like the thief that is the tax collector.

And what is one example of this, I'm waiting.

[toll_booth]

Oh FFS, not this **** again.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by skbl17

Eh...if a hypothetical "Milton County" contains Sandy Springs, I can imagine Milton either being grandfathered into or voting to remain part of MARTA. GA 400 traffic and the three Sandy Springs MARTA stations won't disappear simply because they're in a new county.

Plus, with an expansion up GA 400 already far along in the development process, I can't see Milton just saying "screw it" and cutting off all relations with MARTA.

I could. And if they did, then Sandy Springs would have to vote itself a 1% sales tax just to keep Sandy Springs and North Springs (and perhaps Medical Center) stations open, which would not happen. Heck, MARTA might not even want to patrol abandoned stations. That sure wouldn't sit well with nearby residents...

[Aubie16]

Originally Posted by demonta4

I don't care what anyone says. Look at South Fulton then take a look at North Fulton. It's pretty obvious which part is being deprived of tax money.

Hahahahaha. I hope you aren't serious. The money in North Fultom didn't come from tax dollars being given to them.

[bUU]

Originally Posted by JC84

Not quite. The fact that North Fulton leaving would create huge financial problems for South Fulton should tell you something.

That it would be like throwing South Fulton under the bus.

Originally Posted by JC84

No matter how much money the wealthier provide to these "victims" as you say, little really changes, does it?

Those who's lives are improved move to North Fulton (or Cobb County, or Cherokee, etc.) However, it is worth noting that providing money for the social safety net just bridges the gap, it doesn't fill the gap. It's only going halfway. The rest of the way involves what I outlined.

Perhaps you're among those who place our comfort and luxury over the priority to solve the long-term problem, or perhaps you benefit from there being a large block of people forever kept destitute and desperate, or perhaps you haven't thought it through completely. Regardless of the excuse, what you've said here still doesn't excuse throwing South Fulton under the bus. As I said, there will always be poor. We humans will never have enough compassion and consideration for others to make the collective sacrifices necessary to actually do away with poverty. So poverty is mandatory; but suffering is not. That lingering amount of economic injustice that our society will never rid itself of is our society's flaw, not its excuse.

Originally Posted by JC84

Poverty is no excuse for a lot of the problems that people honestly don't want to take accountability for. Out of wedlock births, up to 70% by some studies, and single parent households is a direct correlation to poverty. So is dropping out of high school. General poor decision making skills.

Then let's do something about those things, showing respect and dignity for the human beings who need our help in those matters.

However, your premise is corrupt because your data is both unattributed and not up-to-date. Out of wedlock births have declined 14% since 2008. And unlike you, I have an authoritative source for my data: [Source: National Vital Statistics System, retrieved August 2014. United States Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics.]

Putting aside that you got the direction and size of the trend wrong (or simply didn't do a good job explaining what you were trying to say), within that downward trend do you know the segment within which there is the greatest increase? Intended, Cohabitating (i.e., not "single parent households"). It increased almost 50% in just eight years. And Unintended, Cohabitating (also not "single parent households") grew almost as fast. And yes, that means that out of wedlock births for Not Cohabitating mothers went down even more drastically.

What's going on? People aren't getting married for reasons unrelated to their economic status - imagine that: There are more things going on in the world than just the prejudicial stereotypes of poverty that some would promulgate.

And of course high school drop-out rates are also falling. [Source: U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics.]

Improvements in the composition of children's households and high school graduation rates don't make a dent in poverty as long as the core problem of poverty is institutionalized economic injustice, built into the fiber of our society. The trends are such that the effects of automation, globalization and other institutional mechanisms are skyrocketing, devaluing the value of work and reducing the supply of living wage jobs in our society. Those impacts are making things worse far faster than the relatively tangential poverty predicting metrics such as out of wedlock births and high school drop-out rates are making things better.

So even if there are pockets where out of wedlock births are getting worse, and high school drop-out rates are getting worse, that's still missing the core of the issue: They're still just a distraction, a deflection away from what's truly important: Opportunity - real, hardcore, opportunity to work, to earn a living wage, without regular interruption when its good for the stock price, without compensation continually falling behind the rate of inflation, etc. And throwing South Fulton under the bus isn't going to help with that, one bit.

Originally Posted by JC84

I'm a liberal but we have to truthfully address ALL of the factors that contribute to poverty instead of blaming it on the middle/upper middle class.

*I* said that, "we should be working to reduce the problem, eliminate the economic injustice, and put everyone in the state on a firm footing from which they can pay their own way - for everything." Did you just skim past that part of the comment you replied to without reading it? But regardless of who said it first, throwing South Fulton under the bus doesn't help accomplish it one bit.

[Larry X]

Originally Posted by bUU

That it would be like throwing South Fulton under the bus.

Those who's lives are improved move to North Fulton (or Cobb County, or Cherokee, etc.) However, it is worth noting that providing money for the social safety net just bridges the gap, it doesn't fill the gap. It's only going halfway. The rest of the way involves what I outlined. Perhaps you're among those who place our comfort and luxury over the priority to solve the long-term problem, or perhaps you benefit from there being a large block of people forever kept destitute and desperate, or perhaps you haven't thought it through completely. Regardless of the excuse, what you've said here still doesn't excuse throwing South Fulton under the bus. As I said, there will always be poor. We humans will never have enough compassion and consideration for others to make the collective sacrifices necessary to actually do away with poverty. So poverty is mandatory; but suffering is not. That lingering amount of economic injustice that our society will never rid itself of is our society's flaw, not its excuse.

Then let's do something about those things, showing respect and dignity for the human beings who need our help in those matters.

However, your premise is corrupt because your data is both unattributed and not up-to-date. Out of wedlock births have declined 14% since 2008. And unlike you, I have an authoritative source for my data: [Source: National Vital Statistics System, retrieved August 2014. United States Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics.] Putting aside that you got the direction and size of the trend wrong, within that downward trend do you know the segment within which there is the greatest increase? Intended, Cohabitating. It increased almost 50% in just eight years. And Unintended, Cohabitating grew almost as fast. And yes, that means that out of wedlock births for Not Cohabitating mothers went down even more drastically.

What's going on? People aren't getting married for reasons unrelated to their economic status - imagine that: There are more things going on in the world than just the prejudicial stereotypes of poverty that some would promulgate.

*I* said that, "we should be working to reduce the problem, eliminate the economic injustice, and put everyone in the state on a firm footing from which they can pay their own way - for everything." Did you just skim past that part of the comment you replied to without reading it?

Ever since the abolishment of slavery the government number goal was to maintain the status quote of whites contain all power, ownership, and control, while keeping blacks a permanent underclass. The government does not want to eliminate economic injustice. They need these people to maintain capitalism, fill prisons, and to be use as scapegoats for everything that's wrong in society.

[earthlyfather]

Some interestingly specious arguments against Milton County. Posted from the Great Free Hindi State of South Forsyth.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

I could. And if they did, then Sandy Springs would have to vote itself a 1% sales tax just to keep Sandy Springs and North Springs (and perhaps Medical Center) stations open, which would not happen. Heck, MARTA might not even want to patrol abandoned stations. That sure wouldn't sit well with nearby residents...

Shutting down the Red Line would be a huge disaster (fortunately there is a 99.9999999999999% chance it wouldn't happen).

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by arjay57

My question is, would recreating Milton put more of a burden on the city of Atlanta taxpayer?

No.

So long as it's revenue neutral the folks up in Milton can do as they please.

I doubt it would.