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We can't have one unified MARTA system in more metro Atlanta counties outside of Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton because a then-even more politically, socially and culturally conservative and outer-suburban/exurban Cobb County opted out of the MARTA system back in the 1960's.
Not only did Cobb County vote down the 1% sales tax to fund MARTA operations in the county, but Cobb County also voted down the opportunity to hold a referendum to vote on the 1% sales tax that was voted on in the other 5 core metro Atlanta counties (Fulton, DeKalb, Clayton and Gwinnett) and originally approved in 2 of those 5 counties (Fulton and DeKalb).
At the time that Cobb County was originally proposed to be part of MARTA along with the 4 other core metro Atlanta counties, Cobb had a much smaller and much more homogenous population and much less development....With about 600,000 fewer residents, a population that was about 94% white and much less development (development patterns that were basically far-outer suburban to exurban in nature), Cobb County basically looked like Paulding County does today, only less diverse and much more politically, socially and culturally conservative.
The Cobb County of the 1960's and '70's was well-known to be an exurban/outer-suburban community that was a destination for white residents fleeing areas inside of the I-285 Perimeter that were beginning to be dominated by black residents as the 'white-flight' phenomenon kicked up in metro areas all over the nation (...ITP areas like the City of Atlanta, DeKalb County, etc).
With the exceptions of daily commutes to and from high-paying jobs and occasional sporting events inside the I-285 Perimeter, the overwhelmingly predominantly white, conservative and outer-suburban/exurban Cobb County of yesteryear basically did not want to be affiliated with or tied to the City of Atlanta in any way, shape or form....A hard-line political, social and cultural stance towards the predominantly black and liberal City of Atlanta that did not even begin to soften until the post-Olympic era.
That is an excellent point that the fears that transit will bring blacks and other minorities into the county are increasingly irrational....That's particularly with black residents now making up over 27% of the population Cobb County and minority residents as a whole now making up over 46% of the population of Cobb County (...3 decades ago, minorities only made up about 6% of Cobb County's population).
The demographic stats say that blacks and minorities are already in Cobb County in increasing abundance with most of them having moved into the county by way of private automobiles, not existing public buses and/or public trains that don't exist in Cobb.
But yet, even with an increasingly diverse and fast-growing population, there is still a strong (though weakening) strain of thought that says that introducing high-capacity transit into Cobb County will bring poor blacks and minorities into the legendarily traditionally overwhelmingly predominantly white and affluent suburban county.
I sometimes look at it like how Chicago run their Systems.. CTA runs buses and Ells/HRT in the City and close in Burbs while Pace runs buses in the Suburbs as well as Metra running Commuter Rail. Not to mention some of the Suburban Counties over in Indiana running their own transit systems transfering into CTA so this isnt too uncommon. Sorta Kinda simular anyway
I sometimes look at it like how Chicago run their Systems.. CTA runs buses and Ells/HRT in the City and close in Burbs while Pace runs buses in the Suburbs as well as Metra running Commuter Rail. Not to mention some of the Suburban Counties over in Indiana running their own transit systems transfering into CTA so this isnt too uncommon. Sorta Kinda simular anyway
Right, but there's not too much of a reason I see in not having MARTA operate all transit within the core 5 counties. That is, not practical reason. The agency's been running trains and buses for 40 years now, and preforms 90%+ of the trips. With the recent, and hopefully continued quality management, there's no reason I see that the agency can't handle the task of running the entire metro's transit. People are already calling for it to take over operation of the streetcars, and MARTA's getting ready to finally build the first section of commuter rail that the State failed to.
Here's how I see how the, if any, split should go:
MARTA runs the inner 5 counties, including the City of Atlanta, running circulators, city buses, ART, BRT, Streetcars, Light Rail, Heavy Rail, and Commuter Rail.
GRTA could take up the outer 5 counties running long-range commuter rail and bueses, with circulator and small-scale town buses where the towns can use it. GRTA uses MARTA tracks, Park-N-Rides, and stations within the core 5 counties, layering transit over MARTA to double up service, or provide express services.
Right, but there's not too much of a reason I see in not having MARTA operate all transit within the core 5 counties. That is, not practical reason. The agency's been running trains and buses for 40 years now, and preforms 90%+ of the trips. With the recent, and hopefully continued quality management, there's no reason I see that the agency can't handle the task of running the entire metro's transit. People are already calling for it to take over operation of the streetcars, and MARTA's getting ready to finally build the first section of commuter rail that the State failed to.
Here's how I see how the, if any, split should go:
MARTA runs the inner 5 counties, including the City of Atlanta, running circulators, city buses, ART, BRT, Streetcars, Light Rail, Heavy Rail, and Commuter Rail.
GRTA could take up the outer 5 counties running long-range commuter rail and bueses, with circulator and small-scale town buses where the towns can use it. GRTA uses MARTA tracks, Park-N-Rides, and stations within the core 5 counties, layering transit over MARTA to double up service, or provide express services.
I agree with your point that MARTA seems to be growing increasingly capable of operating all transit within the 5 core counties of metro Atlanta....An observation that likely would not have been the case just a few short years ago.
The major reason why MARTA in its current form cannot (and likely may not for several more years) operate all transit service in the 5 core county area of metro Atlanta is because of politics....Mainly the sharp political (and social and cultural) differences between MARTA's current operating area of Fulton/DeKalb/Clayton and non-MARTA core metro Atlanta counties Cobb and Gwinnett.
While Cobb's population is infinitely much more diverse than when the first votes for MARTA membership were taken back in the 1960's, the county's electorate (while also much more diverse than it used to be) continues to be dominated (for the time being) by older tax and transit-averse voters who view transit (particularly MARTA) as a vehicle to bring poor blacks and minorities into a county that they still think of as being much the same largely white and affluent homogenous outer-suburban county that Cobb was from the 1950's through the early 1990's.
Cobb County's averse views towards high-capacity transit will most likely continue to recede even further if the new Braves' stadium generates the severe rush hour traffic congestion that many seem to think it will generate after it opens in an area that already struggles with severe traffic congestion during evening rush hours.
Gwinnett County, meanwhile, has an even more diverse population that continues to be dominated by a transit-averse electorate that has not yet grown to match the diversity of the county's increasingly ultra-diverse population.
In political speak, Cobb County is basically a 'red' county with a population that is trending increasingly 'purple' while Gwinnett County is basically a 'red' county with a 'blue' population that is trending increasingly 'blue'.
With the demographic changes that both non-MARTA member core metro Atlanta counties are experiencing, Cobb County will potentially be much more electorally accepting of a regional high-capacity transit solution probably sometime within the next 10-15 years or so while Gwinnett could potentially become electorally accepting of a regional high-capacity transit solution (MARTA or otherwise) within the next 5-10 years so.
Though there has been some talk (particularly from metro Atlanta's increasingly restless Northside business community) that the State of Georgia potentially could intervene to push forward some type of regional high-capacity solution within the next decade or so. Stay tuned....
I agree with your point that MARTA seems to be growing increasingly capable of operating all transit within the 5 core counties of metro Atlanta....An observation that likely would not have been the case just a few short years ago.
The major reason why MARTA in its current form cannot (and likely may not for several more years) operate all transit service in the 5 core county area of metro Atlanta is because of politics....Mainly the sharp political (and social and cultural) differences between MARTA's current operating area of Fulton/DeKalb/Clayton and non-MARTA core metro Atlanta counties Cobb and Gwinnett.
While Cobb's population is infinitely much more diverse than when the first votes for MARTA membership were taken back in the 1960's, the county's electorate (while also much more diverse than it used to be) continues to be dominated (for the time being) by older tax and transit-averse voters who view transit (particularly MARTA) as a vehicle to bring poor blacks and minorities into a county that they still think of as being much the same largely white and affluent homogenous outer-suburban county that Cobb was from the 1950's through the early 1990's.
Cobb County's averse views towards high-capacity transit will most likely continue to recede even further if the new Braves' stadium generates the severe rush hour traffic congestion that many seem to think it will generate after it opens in an area that already struggles with severe traffic congestion during evening rush hours.
Gwinnett County, meanwhile, has an even more diverse population that continues to be dominated by a transit-averse electorate that has not yet grown to match the diversity of the county's increasingly ultra-diverse population.
In political speak, Cobb County is basically a 'red' county with a population that is trending increasingly 'purple' while Gwinnett County is basically a 'red' county with a 'blue' population that is trending increasingly 'blue'.
With the demographic changes that both non-MARTA member core metro Atlanta counties are experiencing, Cobb County will potentially be much more electorally accepting of a regional high-capacity transit solution probably sometime within the next 10-15 years or so while Gwinnett could potentially become electorally accepting of a regional high-capacity transit solution (MARTA or otherwise) within the next 5-10 years so.
Though there has been some talk (particularly from metro Atlanta's increasingly restless Northside business community) that the State of Georgia potentially could intervene to push forward some type of regional high-capacity solution within the next decade or so. Stay tuned....
Yeah, I get the political reasons why MARTA can't do it, but like you pointed out, I don't see much of an operational reason why MARTA can't handle the spectrum of services in the Metro Area.
We'll see what shenanigans the State gets up to with MARTA and other agencies, but there'll be hell to pay from the City and around if the State tries anything too crazy. Though some might not see it, MARTA is actually a part of Atlanta's culture. It's in our art, music, and lives, and with the recent strives that the agency has been making, it's in a lot of people's hearts and minds as well. With the community improvement aspect that CEO Parker has been pushing, we could see this become even more solidified as time goes on. An attempt to take over the agency and rebrand it, for a reason as shallow as people not being able to see past its rocky past, for its smooth present, will be pushed back against. The real question then, is how hard will be the push?
Yeah, I get the political reasons why MARTA can't do it, but like you pointed out, I don't see much of an operational reason why MARTA can't handle the spectrum of services in the Metro Area.
We'll see what shenanigans the State gets up to with MARTA and other agencies, but there'll be hell to pay from the City and around if the State tries anything too crazy. Though some might not see it, MARTA is actually a part of Atlanta's culture. It's in our art, music, and lives, and with the recent strives that the agency has been making, it's in a lot of people's hearts and minds as well. With the community improvement aspect that CEO Parker has been pushing, we could see this become even more solidified as time goes on. An attempt to take over the agency and rebrand it, for a reason as shallow as people not being able to see past its rocky past, for its smooth present, will be pushed back against. The real question then, is how hard will be the push?
Republican Georgia Lt. Governor Casey Cagle (who is frequently mentioned as the frontrunner for governor in 2018 if both former congressmen Lynn Westmoreland and Jack Kingston stay out of the race) has on multiple occasions talked of having Georgia's state government rebrand and takeover control of MARTA so that there is less opposition to expanding the region's rail transit network outside of Fulton and DeKalb counties and throughout metro Atlanta and North Georgia.
Chances are that we will see some kind of movement by the state to become much more involved in MARTA in an attempt to expand rail transit to outlying areas if Lt. Governor Casey Cagle wins the governor's race in 2018. If someone like Lynn Westmoreland or Jack Kingston or another contender wins the governor's race (or if by chance a Democrat wins the governor's race while Republicans retain large legislative majorities in 2018), chances are that we will see very little, if any, action on transit on a regional scale or at the state government level.
If the state wants to make a play for control of MARTA, it would probably be in the form of a non-hostile 'partnership' that would be hard for Intown/ITP interests to fight back against....Especially if the state offers to bring a lot of money to the table.
Most people do not have enough time to sit and wait for a bus. Live arrivals lets you minimize wait times rather than sit on the side of the road for 23 minutes. How hard is this to add in this age of mobile connected devices?
If the state wants to make a play for control of MARTA, it would probably be in the form of a non-hostile 'partnership' that would be hard for Intown/ITP interests to fight back against....Especially if the state offers to bring a lot of money to the table.
Sounds very interesting and I would love to see what this could be. I'm seeing a significant representation of Rs in the state house supporting transit in Atlanta. I actually feel a slight tinge of hope for transit in the coming years
Yeah, I know....But Westmoreland has the name recognition (arguably even the highest name recognition) from his years in Congress and the ability to raise lots of money to contend for the governor's office in a state with an electorate dominated by conservative voters.
Only Jack Kingston probably has higher name recognition statewide (particularly in South Georgia). Though Jack Kingston seems to have problems connecting with metro Atlanta and North Georgia voters.
With his name recognition from his years serving in Congress and his penchant for serving as a bridge between Republican moderates and much more conservative Freedom Caucus/Tea Party types in recent years, Westmoreland would potentially instantly become the frontrunner were he to enter the 2018 Georgia Governor's Race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311
Sounds very interesting and I would love to see what this could be. I'm seeing a significant representation of Rs in the state house supporting transit in Atlanta. I actually feel a slight tinge of hope for transit in the coming years
In recent years, current 2018 governor's race frontrunner Lt. Governor Casey Cagle has in front of big-business and chamber of commerce types talked up the concept of a state-commissioned large-scale P3 (Public-Private Partnership) as a way of expanding rail transit throughout metro Atlanta and North Georgia....Though we still seem to be quite a ways from anything specific coming together, especially when it comes to a regional transit solution.
MARTA seems to already be in the very early stages of increasing its revenues from private sources with the real estate development projects that the agency is commissioning at its rail transit stations....Which is a direction that we will probably see many large major North American metro transit agencies go in coming years and decades out of necessity as public funding sources alone continue to be exhausted.
Most people do not have enough time to sit and wait for a bus. Live arrivals lets you minimize wait times rather than sit on the side of the road for 23 minutes. How hard is this to add in this age of mobile connected devices?
"The new buses will have on-board Wi-Fi and can provide real-time passenger information that will lead to the development of a mobile app. The app will be introduced later this year, according to the county."- AJC
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