Segregation's New Geography: The Atlanta Metro Region, Race, and the Declining Prospects for Upward Mobility (Alpharetta: for sale, 2015)

[aries4118]

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Segregation's New Geography: The Atlanta Metro Region, Race, and the Declining Prospects for Upward Mobility | Southern Spaces

[Atlwarrior]

The article doesn't tell the whole. Many middle and upper class blacks have the same dis-investment attitude as those who fled to the suburbs. Once I see private investment in certain parts of inner city Atlanta, you really can't throw stones be thrown when in reality they are economically doing the same thing, which is escape to surburban caves. Some of the most hateful bourgeois looks have come from Upper class blacks on Cascade road.

[Saintmarks]

I think I'm with you Atlwarrior. I see the income divide trumping racial issues in the real day to day lives of the majority. I see it at work, those who have risen in management and left us sales guys behind. When someone gets their little piece of turf, they do just about anything to defend it and keep it. Ideals fall by the wayside. And it doesn't matter the background. Get what is mine and anyone who wants it be damned. That is the overriding lowest common denominator and sadly it affects and infects all.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Atlwarrior

The article doesn't tell the whole. Many middle and upper class blacks have the same dis-investment attitude as those who fled to the suburbs. Once I see private investment in certain parts of inner city Atlanta, you really can't throw stones be thrown when in reality they are economically doing the same thing, which is escape to surburban caves. Some of the most hateful bourgeois looks have come from Upper class blacks on Cascade road.

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I think I'm with you Atlwarrior. I see the income divide trumping racial issues in the real day to day lives of the majority. I see it at work, those who have risen in management and left us sales guys behind. When someone gets their little piece of turf, they do just about anything to defend it and keep it. Ideals fall by the wayside. And it doesn't matter the background. Get what is mine and anyone who wants it be damned. That is the overriding lowest common denominator and sadly it affects and infects all.

I can agree with this--to some degree. It is an unfortunate phenomenon of U.S. culture and values.


But y'all are forgetting one key point: flight


Whites fleeing an area when minorities come in. Most whites prefer an area that is less than 20% black (in Metro Atlanta, I would say most whites prefer an area less than 33% black). Most blacks prefer an "integrated" or mixed area (up to roughly 50% black). As you can see, this does not bode well for stable demographics (and you have to take into account the ripple effect...the whites that desire 5-10% or less then leave, then the 15-20 percenters, etc. The issue snowballs since whites that may desire a higher minority/black pop get put into a quandary as the other whites leave earlier).

[aries4118]

10 Things Most Americans Don't Know About America

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by aries4118

10 Things Most Americans Don't Know About America

Thank you for posting this, Aries. Really sums it all up, doesn't it? I hope many folks will read this article and engage in some introspection.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Thank you for posting this, Aries. Really sums it all up, doesn't it? I hope many folks will read this article and engage in some introspection.

Yes. Hope.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by aries4118

I can agree with this--to some degree. It is an unfortunate phenomenon of U.S. culture and values.


But y'all are forgetting one key point: flight


Whites fleeing an area when minorities come in. Most whites prefer an area that is less than 20% black (in Metro Atlanta, I would say most whites prefer an area less than 33% black). Most blacks prefer an "integrated" or mixed area (up to roughly 50% black). As you can see, this does not bode well for stable demographics (and you have to take into account the ripple effect...the whites that desire 5-10% or less then leave, then the 15-20 percenters, etc. The issue snowballs since whites that may desire a higher minority/black pop get put into a quandary as the other whites leave earlier).

Interesting the different tolerance levels that whites have vs. blacks and even the different percentage levels experienced within both groups. Having grown up in the south, I remember a day when the vast majority of whites had a 0% attitude, so I may sound pollyanna to you, but I still say that attitudes have come a LONG way in my lifetime.

I think the mindset comes down to the public schools. I think it is fair to say that the majority of whites do not want to send their kids to a school where they will be a minority. I hate to say it, most will deny it, will say something about crime or test scores.... but the reality is they do not want their kids to be in a minority district.

An interesting phenomenon happening here in my corner of DFW. One of the newest developments in Frisco is full of homes half a million and up. This newer area has become almost exclusively South Asian (primarily Indian). Saw a statistic that one of the newer elementary schools that serves this area is 70% Asian. And yes, white flight is happening there too. Folks that built their dream house just 2-3 years ago are selling out and moving to a less lopsided demographic.

So, what do we do? I don't have an answer. I just hope and I do believe, maybe naively so, that each generation will raise that percentage barrier you mention at least 10% over their forebears. I think that is a fair assessment. It has certainly raised dramatically in my lifetime.

[darkskinman740]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Interesting the different tolerance levels that whites have vs. blacks and even the different percentage levels experienced within both groups. Having grown up in the south, I remember a day when the vast majority of whites had a 0% attitude, so I may sound pollyanna to you, but I still say that attitudes have come a LONG way in my lifetime.

I think the mindset comes down to the public schools. I think it is fair to say that the majority of whites do not want to send their kids to a school where they will be a minority. I hate to say it, most will deny it, will say something about crime or test scores.... but the reality is they do not want their kids to be in a minority district.

An interesting phenomenon happening here in my corner of DFW. One of the newest developments in Frisco is full of homes half a million and up. This newer area has become almost exclusively South Asian (primarily Indian). Saw a statistic that one of the newer elementary schools that serves this area is 70% Asian. And yes, white flight is happening there too. Folks that built their dream house just 2-3 years ago are selling out and moving to a less lopsided demographic.

So, what do we do? I don't have an answer. I just hope and I do believe, maybe naively so, that each generation will raise that percentage barrier you mention at least 10% over their forebears. I think that is a fair assessment. It has certainly raised dramatically in my lifetime.

This is interesting because I have been searching for a home as you and Aries know and one of the things I picked up on is the large number of new home communities in South Forsyth(Cumming-Alpharetta-Johns Creek) being about 90% Indian. And this isn't just one community but multiple communities. We looked at a few Lennar communities(and they were not cheap between $300,000-$600,000) in particular and realized that they were practically all Indian. While this isn't bad for myself as a minority, it could possibly not be good for resale values because of typical white flight. So my wonder is whether this is going to cause white flight and affect the resale values of those areas. It seems like at the moment that West Forsyth is majority white and South Forsyth is becoming majority Indian. There is much more building to come(practically overbuilding) since there is so much land and there are a lot of homes for sale in that area, but the area is still considered sought after. I also noticed how school districts are often redrawn based off these matters to keep some schools a certain way.

My search at the moment is for Good Schools and a not getting burned on my home value as I did by buying in Clayton County. My house(rental property) is just barely about to break even but the school system is still so bad that there aren't a ton of buyers. The only people who would buy in that area now would be majority African American and they are buying strictly for affordability.

I'd be interested to see what you guys think about South Forsyth's future. I'm wondering if it will look like Duluth(Pleasant Hill) after the Asian influx and white flight to Buford(Mall of GA).

[demonta4]

Originally Posted by darkskinman740

This is interesting because I have been searching for a home as you and Aries know and one of the things I picked up on is the large number of new home communities in South Forsyth(Cumming-Alpharetta-Johns Creek) being about 90% Indian. And this isn't just one community but multiple communities. We looked at a few Lennar communities(and they were not cheap between $300,000-$600,000) in particular and realized that they were practically all Indian. While this isn't bad for myself as a minority, it could possibly not be good for resale values because of typical white flight. So my wonder is whether this is going to cause white flight and affect the resale values of those areas. It seems like at the moment that West Forsyth is majority white and South Forsyth is becoming majority Indian. There is much more building to come(practically overbuilding) since there is so much land and there are a lot of homes for sale in that area, but the area is still considered sought after. I also noticed how school districts are often redrawn based off these matters to keep some schools a certain way.

My search at the moment is for Good Schools and a not getting burned on my home value as I did by buying in Clayton County. My house(rental property) is just barely about to break even but the school system is still so bad that there aren't a ton of buyers. The only people who would buy in that area now would be majority African American and they are buying strictly for affordability.

I'd be interested to see what you guys think about South Forsyth's future. I'm wondering if it will look like Duluth(Pleasant Hill) after the Asian influx and white flight to Buford(Mall of GA).

What area of Clayton do you stay in. Just interested in those demographics.