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Old 08-11-2016, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,381 posts, read 17,543,703 times
Reputation: 5422

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
An urban city needs more than an endless grid of homes and businesses. It needs a variety of ways to get around depending on the need. It needs streets and alleys but it also needs parkways and freeways.
Yes, tearing down residential areas for freeways has worked so well for us in the past.
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Old 08-11-2016, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,243 posts, read 4,635,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post

I guess I should also clarify: one of the biggest reasons I love Atlanta is specifically because it's not an endless grid.
I get what you are saying here and I share that appreciation. Cities that are endless grids are a bit numbing. But in the core, it works really well. I like grids that are formed around natural features, so it is broken up and creates neighborhoods. I would never desire grids like LA south of downtown, with an absolutely numbing never ending street grid. It feels so unnatural and efficient to the point of soulless.

I am glad Freedom Parkway was stopped when it did, but I certainly enjoy its benefits M - F.
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Old 08-11-2016, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
376 posts, read 195,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Yes, tearing down residential areas for freeways has worked so well for us in the past.
So you are saying there shouldn't be various ways of getting around and we just need a 'one size fits all' approach?
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Old 08-11-2016, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,381 posts, read 17,543,703 times
Reputation: 5422
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
So you are saying there shouldn't be various ways of getting around and we just need a 'one size fits all' approach?
I am saying we should not destroy parts of the city where people live to carter to suburban commuters. Look at the scares that exist in Atlanta because of freeway construction.
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Old 08-11-2016, 01:53 PM
JPD
 
12,159 posts, read 15,060,496 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
So you are saying there shouldn't be various ways of getting around and we just need a 'one size fits all' approach?
There would still be various ways of getting around if Freedom Parkway was never built.
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Old 08-11-2016, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
376 posts, read 195,767 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I am saying we should not destroy parts of the city where people live to carter to suburban commuters. Look at the scares that exist in Atlanta because of freeway construction.
Freeways and parkways cater to more than just 'suburban commuters'. People need several different options to move from one part of the city to the other.
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Old 08-11-2016, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
376 posts, read 195,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
There would still be various ways of getting around if Freedom Parkway was never built.
The issue is bigger than Freedom Parkway. I think if a certain crowd here had their way they would get rid of all freeways and parkways and just have nothing but city streets to move around.
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Old 08-11-2016, 03:25 PM
 
10,530 posts, read 7,505,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
The issue is bigger than Freedom Parkway. I think if a certain crowd here had their way they would get rid of all freeways and parkways and just have nothing but city streets to move around.
Like London or Paris?

So yes, I do think every freeway inside of 285 needs to be seriously evaluated for removal. There are a lot of success stories around not having freeways and freeway removals and very few "horror stories" around it.

http://gizmodo.com/6-freeway-removal...ver-1548314937

But we know the idea of removing any pavement from car usage causes many car-obsessed folks to go nuts, regardless of what reality supports.

Last edited by jsvh; 08-11-2016 at 03:35 PM..
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Old 08-11-2016, 08:09 PM
 
Location: In your feelings
2,199 posts, read 1,594,372 times
Reputation: 2169
Oh boy, we're back on this topic? Might as well respond to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
So it adds, what...an extra minute onto your drive? Granted I don't go that way very often, but I've never noticed much traffic on Highland at that intersection.
Multiply that by 5, at least. Just sitting at the traffic light at Highland and Freedom Parkway takes 2–3 minutes, and that's if you're lucky, and traffic isn't so backed up that it takes more than one cycle for you to cross the Parkway. Then another few minutes sitting at the light at Highland and North, which I could avoid entirely if Freedom Parkway hadn't severed the north and south ends of Seminole.

Limited access roads are a hinderance to the free movement of people in the neighborhood, as it gives all priority to people passing through it. You can choose to like Freedom Parkway if you want, but you can't deny that it helps commuters at the expense of locals. Which might explain why the main person here who likes it, lives nowhere near it.

Last edited by magnetar; 08-11-2016 at 08:18 PM..
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Old 08-11-2016, 09:40 PM
Status: "Apparently not a person." (set 21 days ago)
 
5,073 posts, read 3,297,271 times
Reputation: 3368
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
Freeways and parkways cater to more than just 'suburban commuters'.
Freedom Parkway doesn't cater to suburban commuters at all. It ends at either Ponce de Leon, or Moreland... hardly suburban. I use it from time to time, and I live in town. In fact, I use it to get to the areas it goes to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Like London or Paris?

So yes, I do think every freeway inside of 285 needs to be seriously evaluated for removal. There are a lot of success stories around not having freeways and freeway removals and very few "horror stories" around it.
Yes, because these cities have strong public transportation systems. If you want to get rid of the car culture, which would be great, you have to put in the transport first. And trust me, I'm an ardent supporter of public transport (heavy rail and light rail, maybe a bus here and there), even though I know it will never happen in my lifetime.

Quote:
But we know the idea of removing any pavement from car usage causes many car-obsessed folks to go nuts, regardless of what reality supports.
You can't just remove the connector and think everything will be hunky dory. Cap over it? Sure. Most of the cities in the article didn't remove freeways altogether, they either tunneled them, built other freeways that allowed their removal, had highways were never completed to begin with and thus weren't major routes, or had alternative transit options to pick up the slack. Until Atlanta can get off its ass and expand MARTA, build light rail, and maybe some of those BRT lines, removing the freeways is a losing proposition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnetar View Post
Multiply that by 5, at least. Just sitting at the traffic light at Highland and Freedom Parkway takes 23 minutes, and that's if you're lucky, and traffic isn't so backed up that it takes more than one cycle for you to cross the Parkway. Then another few minutes sitting at the light at Highland and North, which I could avoid entirely if Freedom Parkway hadn't severed the north and south ends of Seminole.
Seminole is a whopping half mile from north end to south end. Walk.

I just cannot fathom how the removal of one single two-lane road with a span of less than 1000 feet, and an alternate through road 500 feet on either side of it, somehow destroyed commutes, but removing all freeways will somehow make everything better. At the same time, you complain about how the removal of that one section of Seminole has made your half-mile commute take eons longer, but I'm pretty sure many of the people trying to get from 75/85 to Little Five, Virginia Highland, Druid Hills, and Lake Claire are glad they don't have to traverse a dozen extra signaled intersections. That area wasn't a grid to begin with, by the way.

Although, I'd be perfectly okay with them making that last bit of Freedom from the Carter Center to Moreland the same size as Highland and adding an intersection at Seminole if it would make you happy.

Quote:
Limited access roads are a hinderance to the free movement of people in the neighborhood, as it gives all priority to people passing through it. You can choose to like Freedom Parkway if you want, but you can't deny that it helps commuters at the expense of locals.
I'm sure it helps locals quite a bit, unless you think locals should stick to their area only. I live in an area without such a road, and sit behind the damn backed up cars at the multiple intersections every day. Seriously...there is not a single east-west road that is more than two lanes between Marietta Blvd. and Peachtree Street north of Chattahoochee and 17th Street. Most of the time, I love driving on those roads...the feeling of being in the country while being in the middle of the city is awesome. But when it comes time to drive the kid to school or to go to work, I just want to get there.

Quote:
Which might explain why the main person here who likes it, lives nowhere near it.
It was built some 15 years ago. If it kills you so much, why do you still live near it?

Anyway, we both know no one is going to change their minds here. But really, if Freedom Parkway had truly killed the area, practically every street within a mile of it wouldn't be the prime real estate it is, nor would every neighborhood in that area be some of the most desirable in the city.

I would, however, accept your argument for a freeway like I-20 or the connector. But Freedom? Nah.
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