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Old 08-12-2016, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,468 posts, read 17,616,911 times
Reputation: 5435

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
Freeways and parkways cater to more than just 'suburban commuters'. People need several different options to move from one part of the city to the other.
Many intowners never use the freeways when traveling by vehicle ITP. There are always alternative routes.
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:16 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,468 posts, read 17,616,911 times
Reputation: 5435
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Freedom Parkway doesn't cater to suburban commuters at all. It ends at either Ponce de Leon, or Moreland... hardly suburban. I use it from time to time, and I live in town. In fact, I use it to get to the areas it goes to.



Yes, because these cities have strong public transportation systems. If you want to get rid of the car culture, which would be great, you have to put in the transport first. And trust me, I'm an ardent supporter of public transport (heavy rail and light rail, maybe a bus here and there), even though I know it will never happen in my lifetime.



You can't just remove the connector and think everything will be hunky dory. Cap over it? Sure. Most of the cities in the article didn't remove freeways altogether, they either tunneled them, built other freeways that allowed their removal, had highways were never completed to begin with and thus weren't major routes, or had alternative transit options to pick up the slack. Until Atlanta can get off its ass and expand MARTA, build light rail, and maybe some of those BRT lines, removing the freeways is a losing proposition.



Seminole is a whopping half mile from north end to south end. Walk.

I just cannot fathom how the removal of one single two-lane road with a span of less than 1000 feet, and an alternate through road 500 feet on either side of it, somehow destroyed commutes, but removing all freeways will somehow make everything better. At the same time, you complain about how the removal of that one section of Seminole has made your half-mile commute take eons longer, but I'm pretty sure many of the people trying to get from 75/85 to Little Five, Virginia Highland, Druid Hills, and Lake Claire are glad they don't have to traverse a dozen extra signaled intersections. That area wasn't a grid to begin with, by the way.

Although, I'd be perfectly okay with them making that last bit of Freedom from the Carter Center to Moreland the same size as Highland and adding an intersection at Seminole if it would make you happy.



I'm sure it helps locals quite a bit, unless you think locals should stick to their area only. I live in an area without such a road, and sit behind the damn backed up cars at the multiple intersections every day. Seriously...there is not a single east-west road that is more than two lanes between Marietta Blvd. and Peachtree Street north of Chattahoochee and 17th Street. Most of the time, I love driving on those roads...the feeling of being in the country while being in the middle of the city is awesome. But when it comes time to drive the kid to school or to go to work, I just want to get there.



It was built some 15 years ago. If it kills you so much, why do you still live near it?

Anyway, we both know no one is going to change their minds here. But really, if Freedom Parkway had truly killed the area, practically every street within a mile of it wouldn't be the prime real estate it is, nor would every neighborhood in that area be some of the most desirable in the city.

I would, however, accept your argument for a freeway like I-20 or the connector. But Freedom? Nah.
It's prime real estate now, thanks to gentrification and back-to-the-city movement, but when the freeway was announced and Copenhill was destroyed the area was not prime. In fact many of those areas are the first wave of gentrifies that moved in after the freeway was cancelled.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:05 AM
 
10,618 posts, read 7,541,774 times
Reputation: 3327
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Yes, because these cities have strong public transportation systems. If you want to get rid of the car culture, which would be great, you have to put in the transport first. And trust me, I'm an ardent supporter of public transport (heavy rail and light rail, maybe a bus here and there), even though I know it will never happen in my lifetime.
Nope. Those cities were dense first. Public transit came second.

Tim Keane said it directly: Atlanta Looks For Solutions To City

Quote:
As far as the “chicken or egg” question of whether transit should come first, or density and limited parking, to Keane, the answer is clear:

“I hear this all the time. ‘Well, we don't want the density unless we get the transit.’ Well, I've got news for you. You really have to start with the density and less parking. If you don't, then you've lost your opportunity, because once you've built that infrastructure, it's so difficult to undo that.”
In fact, even Atlanta used to be much denser itself. Of course that changed when we started destroying neighborhoods to build highways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
You can't just remove the connector and think everything will be hunky dory. Cap over it? Sure. Most of the cities in the article didn't remove freeways altogether, they either tunneled them, built other freeways that allowed their removal, had highways were never completed to begin with and thus weren't major routes, or had alternative transit options to pick up the slack. Until Atlanta can get off its ass and expand MARTA, build light rail, and maybe some of those BRT lines, removing the freeways is a losing proposition.
Can you give an example of a freeway removal that has not gone well?

Heck, even Dallas (which has no better transit then MARTA) is working on removing a much more major section of downtown highway than Freedom Parkway:






The good news is, reality doesn't change depending on what you think about it. Atlanta is done catering solely to suburban car commuters.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:14 AM
 
29,424 posts, read 26,385,562 times
Reputation: 10307
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Many intowners never use the freeways when traveling by vehicle ITP. There are always alternative routes.
That's true for a lot of OTP'ers as well. There's just no need to get on the freeways.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,468 posts, read 17,616,911 times
Reputation: 5435
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
That's true for a lot of OTP'ers as well. There's just no need to get on the freeways.
We are only focusing on this corridor. No need to bring that crap in here.
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Old 08-12-2016, 07:22 AM
bu2
 
10,094 posts, read 6,475,273 times
Reputation: 4208
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
Freeways and parkways cater to more than just 'suburban commuters'. People need several different options to move from one part of the city to the other.
I think they feel like the city ends at Inman Park. Everybody else's needs should be ignored.

They really have the same attitude as the Cobb people, trying to create a self-contained space poorly connected to the rest of the metro.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:39 AM
 
5,130 posts, read 3,326,014 times
Reputation: 3408
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Nope. Those cities were dense first. Public transit came second.

Tim Keane said it directly: Atlanta Looks For Solutions To City



In fact, even Atlanta used to be much denser itself. Of course that changed when we started destroying neighborhoods to build highways.
Oh good, you again. So, just to make sure I have it straight. We could remove every interstate in Atlanta, simply connect the roads, remove most parking, and everything would just work perfectly, because...something. Is that about right?
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
376 posts, read 196,888 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Many intowners never use the freeways when traveling by vehicle ITP. There are always alternative routes.
So I work downtown and I need/want to go up to Buckhead. I'm supposed to ignore the freeway that runs right next to where I am and goes right by where I want to go and crawl my way up Peachtree or Piedmont instead?
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
376 posts, read 196,888 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
I think they feel like the city ends at Inman Park. Everybody else's needs should be ignored.

They really have the same attitude as the Cobb people, trying to create a self-contained space poorly connected to the rest of the metro.
Yes some people here are rather myopic.
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Old 08-12-2016, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
376 posts, read 196,888 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Oh good, you again. So, just to make sure I have it straight. We could remove every interstate in Atlanta, simply connect the roads, remove most parking, and everything would just work perfectly, because...something. Is that about right?
I think we should shut down the freeways for a week and route the traffic down the city street by his house. After all isn't that where it's supposed to be going?
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