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Old 08-12-2016, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,393 posts, read 17,559,252 times
Reputation: 5423

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
So I work downtown and I need/want to go up to Buckhead. I'm supposed to ignore the freeway that runs right next to where I am and goes right by where I want to go and crawl my way up Peachtree or Piedmont instead?
No one is preventing you from using it, but the times I have to drive to Buckhead I always take surface streets and many of my fellow neighbors and friends stay off the freeways as well.

Of course you could always take MARTA and avoid any traffic issues?
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:01 PM
Status: "Apparently not a person." (set 26 days ago)
 
5,084 posts, read 3,305,503 times
Reputation: 3382
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
No one is preventing you from using it, but the times I have to drive to Buckhead I always take surface streets and many of my fellow neighbors and friends stay off the freeways as well.

Of course you could always take MARTA and avoid any traffic issues?
And you can do that because the in-town interstates carry more than a quarter million vehicles per day, keeping them off of those roads. Removing the interstates might go hand in hand with "induced demand", but not to the tune of a quarter million vehicles per day. Most of those people would need to go somewhere, somehow. And if you live in town, your precious little enclave might become the next cross route. So, be careful what you wish for.
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Old 08-12-2016, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,393 posts, read 17,559,252 times
Reputation: 5423
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
And you can do that because the in-town interstates carry more than a quarter million vehicles per day, keeping them off of those roads. Removing the interstates might go hand in hand with "induced demand", but not to the tune of a quarter million vehicles per day. Most of those people would need to go somewhere, somehow. And if you live in town, your precious little enclave might become the next cross route. So, be careful what you wish for.
Why the hostile tone? I was presenting an example of how many people avoid the freeways intown if they can.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:15 PM
Status: "Apparently not a person." (set 26 days ago)
 
5,084 posts, read 3,305,503 times
Reputation: 3382
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Why the hostile tone? I was presenting an example of how many people avoid the freeways intown if they can.
Wasn't trying to be hostile. But the "you're wrong" or "spouting nonsense" responses to anyone questioning whether Freedom Parkway really killed the area has kind of set the tone.

I understand that your point was "lots of people don't use the freeways" and that there are "always alternative routes". But, were you not suggesting that since lots of people use surface streets that the freeways aren't really necessary? Because those alternative routes would likely be jammed solid if 200,000 vehicles suddenly had to use them.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,393 posts, read 17,559,252 times
Reputation: 5423
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
Wasn't trying to be hostile. But the "you're wrong" or "spouting nonsense" responses to anyone questioning whether Freedom Parkway really killed the area has kind of set the tone.

I understand that your point was "lots of people don't use the freeways" and that there are "always alternative routes". But, were you not suggesting that since lots of people use surface streets that the freeways aren't really necessary? Because those alternative routes would likely be jammed solid if 200,000 vehicles suddenly had to use them.
I was not suggesting that at all.
You are also assuming that I suggested removing the downtown connector, which I did not. But it too was jammed thru a vibrant area (Sweet Auburn) and destroyed the area to which it still has not fully recovered. I am not advocating we remove all freeways ITP. But the original visionary of the interstate highway system even saw the mistake that was made when we jammed freeways thru city cores.
Quote:
This anecdote has been told at Cities before but it bears repeating: Eisenhower himself didn't realize the Interstate Highway System would cut through American cities until a few years after construction began. Ike had wanted a national road network like the one he'd seen in Germany during World War II. But he'd also wanted these roads to stop at the doorsteps of cities, not push right past.
What the Interstate Highway System Should Have Looked Like - CityLab
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:39 PM
 
10,540 posts, read 7,513,574 times
Reputation: 3322
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
And you can do that because the in-town interstates carry more than a quarter million vehicles per day, keeping them off of those roads. Removing the interstates might go hand in hand with "induced demand", but not to the tune of a quarter million vehicles per day. Most of those people would need to go somewhere, somehow. And if you live in town, your precious little enclave might become the next cross route. So, be careful what you wish for.
You wouldn't close them all overnight. Gradually so people have a chance to adjust / jobs move closer to people / people move closer to jobs.

Freedom Parkway could be closed overnight, probably Langford Parkway too. For the remaining highways ITP I would implement this over several years:

Turn all highways into toll roads. Gradually raise tolls and reduce capacity / lanes (as people divert to alternate transportation methods) until you get either enough money to fully cap and maintain the remaining smaller highway, or if you never get to that equilibrium (because more people switch to alternatives than pay the cost of the highway) then you just get rid of the highway entirely.

Will this happen any time soon? Probably not. But I would expect something to this effect to be in place 30-50 years from now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
I think we should shut down the freeways for a week and route the traffic down the city street by his house. After all isn't that where it's supposed to be going?
I am fine with that. I don't drive much so the grid lock traffic will just make it easier for me to cross the street. Of course it will just result in many people finding alternate methods than driving. Once a road is at capacity you can't get any more so those people have to go somewhere.

Atlanta has had a lot of success with things like Streets Alive entirely closing major streets. It makes it a lot easier to get around.
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
376 posts, read 196,052 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
No one is preventing you from using it, but the times I have to drive to Buckhead I always take surface streets and many of my fellow neighbors and friends stay off the freeways as well.

Of course you could always take MARTA and avoid any traffic issues?
I'll be willing to bet that if we leave at the same time 9 times out of 10 I'll be in Buckhead before you.

FYI I just went to Edgewood for lunch and took Freedom Pkwy back to downtown - glad to have that choice!
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
376 posts, read 196,052 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Freedom Parkway could be closed overnight, probably Langford Parkway too. For the remaining highways ITP I would implement this over several years:
Ok lets play this out then. This is a real case:

I have friends down in south fulton that I go visit a couple times a month, usually after work. Right now I leave work get on 75/85 south until I hit Langford Parkway follow it all the way until it becomes Cambellton Rd and keep taking it all the way to Camp Creek. It generally takes me in the evening rush hour about 20 mins.

Now we are going to follow your plan and get rid of Langford Pkwy how would you recommend that I reach my destination in the same amount of time?
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Old 08-12-2016, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,393 posts, read 17,559,252 times
Reputation: 5423
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
I'll be willing to bet that if we leave at the same time 9 times out of 10 I'll be in Buckhead before you.

FYI I just went to Edgewood for lunch and took Freedom Pkwy back to downtown - glad to have that choice!
Christmas shopping season
July 4th
Sporting event
large convention
afternoon rush hour
presidential visit
snow/ice/rain storm
That is a lot more than 9 out of 10.
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:17 PM
 
10,540 posts, read 7,513,574 times
Reputation: 3322
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTravelinMan View Post
I'll be willing to bet that if we leave at the same time 9 times out of 10 I'll be in Buckhead before you.

FYI I just went to Edgewood for lunch and took Freedom Pkwy back to downtown - glad to have that choice!
I am all for choice, and I know there are plenty of scenarios where it is possible to get places faster by car in Atlanta. After all, Atlanta has spent the last 60 years designing around the car at the expense of other methods.

Unfortunately, it is not possible to provide every choice for free to the end user. Some decisions have to be made and the reality is Atlanta focusing on car-only transportation has been a failure. All the highway expansions have made traffic worse and transportation is the top regional concern. The reality is that a major city cannot effectively and efficiently function with 90%+ trips made by car.

It is time to reverse the trends. You will still have choices to get there by car, but they may become slightly more difficult so it is easier for many more to get there by foot / bike / and transit. The good news is that even if you still insist on driving all the time, this will benefit you as less people will be on the road.
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