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Old 03-06-2016, 10:36 AM
 
27,715 posts, read 24,737,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
Poster child for urban sprawl is the city that suffers the worse consequences for urban sprawl. We are not that city, I'm not even sure how that is debatable.

The density stat is overplayed in this argument and makes for lazy classification, that is my point.
Actually Atlanta IS that city/metro, and density is a lot more important here than you realize. Here's a study that breaks it down comprehensively: Measuring Sprawl 2014 | Smart Growth America

One major consequence of urban sprawl is the lack of economic mobility. Here's an excerpt from the study:

Quote:
People in more compact, connected metro areas have greater economic mobility.

Could metro areas with homes and jobs far apart and limited connections between those areas directly affect the ability of low-income children to get ahead as adults?

The researchers compared the 2014 Sprawl Index scores to models of upward economic mobility from Harvard and the University of California at Berkeley. They examined the probability of a child born to a family in the bottom quintile of the national income distribution reaching the top quintile of the national income distribution by age 30, and whether communities’ index score was correlated with that probability.

The researchers found that compactness has a strong direct relationship to upward economic mobility. In fact, for every 10 percent increase in an index score, there is a 4.1 percent increase in the probability that a child born to a family in the bottom quintile of the national income distribution reaches the top quintile of the national income distribution by age 30. For example, the probability of an individual in the Baton Rouge, LA area (index score: 55.6) moving from the bottom income quintile to top quintile is 7.2 percent. In the Madison, WI area (index score: 136.7) that probability is 10.2 percent.
This correlates with the more recent study that came out that put Atlanta next to last for economic mobility for the 50 largest metros. Where Urban Sprawl Makes It Tougher for the Poor to Rise Up the Social and Economic Ranks - CityLab

Quote:
Not seeing LA or Houston on that list, BTW
LA is #18 and Houston is #23. Scroll all the way down to see the top 25 list.
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Old 03-06-2016, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Valdosta (Atlanta Native)
3,442 posts, read 2,816,679 times
Reputation: 2148
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Look up the definition of MSA. People in Carrollton do work in the area. That's why it is part of the MSA.
If anything they work in the suburbs. This is due to Atlanta being a job magnet in the southeast and our influence on surrpounding areas. Carrollton isn't sprawl from Atlanta.
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Old 03-06-2016, 04:59 PM
 
5,357 posts, read 4,883,814 times
Reputation: 3506
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
Poster child for urban sprawl is the city that suffers the worse consequences for urban sprawl. We are not that city, I'm not even sure how that is debatable.

The density stat is overplayed in this argument and makes for lazy classification, that is my point.
I agree with those on this board that think that it is unfair that Atlanta seems to get picked on the most and saddled with the title of "the poster child for urban sprawl."

Though, whether fairly or unfairly, Atlanta does have the reputation of being the world's "poster child for urban sprawl." It is a reputation that Atlanta earned during the lead-up to the Olympics in the 1990's when the international spotlight and attention of the world was on the city/metro after winning the bid to host the 1996 Summer Olympics.

Big-city newspapers from around the world (including the major newspapers of the Northeast like the Boston Globe and (ESPECIALLY) the New York Times) ran numerous stories in the 6 years during the lead-up to the 1996 Olympics focusing on Atlanta's automobile-dominated lifestyle that was anchored by the metro area's then-revered freeway network.

Atlanta's international reputation as "the poster child for urban sprawl" was further cemented after the 1996 Olympics during a massive population growth spurt in the late 1990's when the metro area became recognized at the time as the fastest-growing human settlement in history and experienced a series of massive traffic jams.

Atlanta's massive post-Olympic population growth spurt of the late 1990's gained much attention from the international press as major international papers like the New York Times and the hometown Atlanta Journal Constitution ran a series of articles describing Atlanta as an explosively fast-growing sprawling behemoth of a metro area that was devouring all available land and open space around it and "choking on its own success."

Given that most of metro Atlanta's population lives within that low-density urban/suburban/exurban sprawl that the international intelligentsia of journalists and urban planning experts loves to deride, the Atlanta region's main daily newspaper, the Journal Constitution, fell out of favor with many of its readers to the extent that the newspaper eventually ordered its writers to stop using the word "sprawl" when referring to the low-density suburban development patterns where many (if not most) of its readers lived.

The Atlanta Journal Constitution also ordered its writers to stop writing negative stories about the low-density urban, suburban and exurban development patterns where most of its readers lived because the stories were alienating most of the paper's readership.

Though, like it or not, the Atlanta area continues to be saddled with the reputation as the world's "poster child for urban sprawl"....A reputation as "the international poster child for sprawl" that was reaffirmed during the embarrassing Snow Jam debacle of a couple years ago where many metro Atlantans got stuck in their cars for several hours in a very large, very major metro area of 6 million where non-SOV (non-single occupant vehicular) alternatives seemed to be almost completely non-existent in most cases during a major regional crisis.

Atlanta's reputation as "the international poster child for sprawl" is unfair, especially when metro areas like Houston and Los Angeles seem to be even more into their single-occupant vehicular lifestyles than Atlanta does. But Atlanta's international reputation as a very large major metro area that is irrationally overdependent on an increasingly inadequate one-dimensional transportation network should not and cannot be ignored and brushed aside simply as unfair criticism from a snobbish international community.

Atlanta has had a problem with being overdependent on an inadequate one-dimensional transportation network for a long time. So anytime the Atlanta metro area get recognized for making some positive strides to address an issue that it has been dogged by for more than two decades, it's a not a bad thing.
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Old 03-06-2016, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,552 posts, read 8,612,923 times
Reputation: 5052
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Actually Atlanta IS that city/metro, and density is a lot more important here than you realize. Here's a study that breaks it down comprehensively: Measuring Sprawl 2014 | Smart Growth America

One major consequence of urban sprawl is the lack of economic mobility. Here's an excerpt from the study:



This correlates with the more recent study that came out that put Atlanta next to last for economic mobility for the 50 largest metros. Where Urban Sprawl Makes It Tougher for the Poor to Rise Up the Social and Economic Ranks - CityLab



LA is #18 and Houston is #23. Scroll all the way down to see the top 25 list.
It is unclear whether this study actually measured cause and effect. You know the saying, "There are lies and damn lies. Then there are statistics."
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Old 03-06-2016, 06:13 PM
 
27,715 posts, read 24,737,149 times
Reputation: 16445
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
It is unclear whether this study actually measured cause and effect. You know the saying, "There are lies and damn lies. Then there are statistics."
The study only measured income inequality itself on the metro level but clearly there's a very strong correlation between it and the compactness (or lack thereof) of metropolitan areas.
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Old 03-06-2016, 06:51 PM
 
5,357 posts, read 4,883,814 times
Reputation: 3506
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Look up the definition of MSA. People in Carrollton do work in the area. That's why it is part of the MSA.
bu2 makes an excellent point that a major reason that Carrollton and Carroll County are classified as part of the Atlanta MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area) because of the presence of a very strong pattern of commuting between Carroll County and the rest of the Atlanta MSA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
If anything they work in the suburbs. This is due to Atlanta being a job magnet in the southeast and our influence on surrpounding areas.
demonta4 makes an excellent point that many Carroll County residents work in the Atlanta suburbs because Atlanta is a major employment hub for the Southeastern U.S.

But I can personally attest that there are many Carroll County residents who commute to work at jobs in the urban core of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

I can personally attest that there are many Carroll County residents who commute to work at jobs in the urban core of the Atlanta metro area because I worked many years with a company that was located immediately near Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport (in Clayton County) and one of my bosses used to commute to work from his residence in Carroll County (in Carrollton).

I also had another supervisor that used to commute to work at that company immediately near the Atlanta Airport from a residence in Cedartown which is in Polk County which is part of the Atlanta CSA (Combined Statistical Area).

With a location and an area like Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport being a major employment hub for Georgia and the Southeastern U.S., there are many workers from outlying counties around North Georgia who commute to jobs in locations in core Metro Atlanta counties like Fulton, Clayton, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
Carrollton isn't sprawl from Atlanta.
That's a good point that the growth of an outlying third-tier city like Carrollton has not necessarily as a direct result of Metro Atlanta's sprawling exurban development patterns.

Though with Carrollton being the site of the University of West Georgia campus, a university that is very popular with Metro Atlantans, one can make the case that the growth of a third-tier city and college town like Carrollton has been as a result of its close relationship with the rest of Metro Atlanta....Because of the thousands of students who hail from the Atlanta area and because of the thousands of residents who commute to and from jobs in the Atlanta area.

There is also evidence that some of the development in Carroll County is a direct result of Metro Atlanta's sprawling exurban/outer-suburban development patterns.

The Fairfield Plantation Golf and Country Club resort and gated residential development which is just west of the Douglas County line in Carroll County is home to dozens of residents who commute to and from jobs in locations closer to Atlanta and in and around the rest of Metro Atlanta.

In particular, even though it is located in Carroll County, the Fairfield Plantation Resort is marketed to customers as being in and part of Metro Atlanta as evidenced by the multiple images of the Central Atlanta skyline and Atlanta attractions on its website...
Fairfield Plantation Resort | Villa Rica, Georgia

From the web page...
Quote:
Welcome to Fairfield Plantation!

Looking for the ultimate getaway? This retreat is in the metro Atlanta area, yet far enough to relax and unwind. We invite you to take a tour on our website…
The outer-suburban Carroll County city of Villa Rica (which straddles the line between Carroll and Douglas counties and considers itself to be in Metro Atlanta) is also evidence of lower-density outer-suburban development patterns that have spilled over from Douglas County into Carroll County.
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