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Old 03-18-2016, 03:55 PM
 
5,358 posts, read 4,883,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pemgin View Post
Salesforce is also threatening to pull out if this is passed into law.

I want to see nothing short of every Fortune 500 company operating in Georgia threaten to move out if this is signed into law. Every convention, too. Legislation this absurd needs to be met with the nuclear option. That way morons like McKoon, Kirk, et. al. get it pounded into their neolithic skulls that state-sanctioned discrimination isn't going to work out the way they want.
The people that socially ultraconservative legislators like Josh McKoon and Greg Kirk represent don't care whether or not the state takes a massive hit image-wise and economically. Heck, many of them want the state to take a massive hit because to them it shows that someone is fighting for their socially conservative views which they consider to be under attack by the left and by the larger society as a whole that they consider to be moving against them.

Many of the outer-suburban, exurban and rural voters that support this type of legislation don't care and actually don't want Atlanta to host major events like the Super Bowl because they see Atlanta as being an evil big city (a Sodom and Gomorrah, if you will) that needs to be brought down a notch or even destroyed because of its immorality and its evil otherworldly ways.

To the voters that support the passage of this type of legislation, the loss of reputation and economic activity is more than worth it because just the controversy alone makes Georgia the next front in the ongoing 'culture wars' between the socially liberal left and the socially conservative right.

Social conservatives are really upset about being on the losing end of the culture wars in recent years, so the passage of a bill like this is a win for them because it pushes back against the social liberalization that has them so unsettled.

Like Georgia state Senator Greg Kirk of Americus has repeatedly alluded to in recent days, the passage of this bill makes Georgia a national leader in the ongoing fight over the definition of marriage.

The socially conservative base of the Georgia Republican Party wants and has been itching for this fight ever since the U.S. Supreme Court started ruling in favor of same-sex couples back in 2013 and they especially wanted this fight after the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage last summer.

The current religious liberty controversy is basically the political showdown and cultural war that social conservatives have been wanting for awhile. Needless to say, the law is having its intended effect for them.
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Old 03-18-2016, 04:49 PM
 
1,809 posts, read 781,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
I can't copy and paste the list here but the gist of it is that the bill passed the Georgia House of Representatives by a vote of 104-65.

From what I understand, I think that all House Democrats that participated in the vote, voted against the bill (there are only about 59 or 60 Democratic members in the Georgia House).

There are about 119 or 120 Republican members in the Georgia House and one independent (Rusty Kidd of Milledgeville) that caucuses with the Republicans. Kidd (the Republican-leaning independent) did not vote for the bill along with 10 House Republicans. Most (if not all) of the House Republicans that voted against the bill are from closer-in parts of the Atlanta metro area.

The Georgia House of Representatives has 180 seats, so with the vote tally being 104 representatives for and 65 representatives against (169 votes total), that means that about 11 representatives did not participate in the vote.

The bill passed the 56-member Georgia Senate by a vote of 37-18 with one member, Republican Ben Watson abstaining from voting.

The bill passed the Georgia Senate along party lines with no members of that body's Republican supermajority voting against the bill.
So given all this, and if Deal vetoes this hateful and backwards piece of legislation do the repubs already have enough votes to override his veto?
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Old 03-18-2016, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilful View Post
So given all this, and if Deal vetoes this hateful and backwards piece of legislation do the repubs already have enough votes to override his veto?
From what I understand, there would have to be at least two-thirds (or 67%) support in both houses of the legislature for a Deal veto to be overridden.

From all appearances, there does not quite seem to be enough support for a possible veto override because only 37 (or 66%) of 56 senators voted for the bill in Georgia Senate but not enough votes in the House where only 104 (or about 58%) out of 180 representatives voted for the bill.

After about 45 days or so of review and consideration by Governor Deal (he has until May 3rd to make a decision) and about 45 days or so of continuing public relations backlash and fallout, I probably would not expect 16 votes to flip from being against to being for this highly-controversial bill so that there would be enough support for an override of what appears to be a likely (but not guaranteed) Deal veto.
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Old 03-18-2016, 06:20 PM
 
1,809 posts, read 781,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
The people that socially ultraconservative legislators like Josh McKoon and Greg Kirk represent don't care whether or not the state takes a massive hit image-wise and economically. Heck, many of them want the state to take a massive hit because to them it shows that someone is fighting for their socially conservative views which they consider to be under attack by the left and by the larger society as a whole that they consider to be moving against them.

Many of the outer-suburban, exurban and rural voters that support this type of legislation don't care and actually don't want Atlanta to host major events like the Super Bowl because they see Atlanta as being an evil big city (a Sodom and Gomorrah, if you will) that needs to be brought down a notch or even destroyed because of its immorality and its evil otherworldly ways.

To the voters that support the passage of this type of legislation, the loss of reputation and economic activity is more than worth it because just the controversy alone makes Georgia the next front in the ongoing 'culture wars' between the socially liberal left and the socially conservative right.

Social conservatives are really upset about being on the losing end of the culture wars in recent years, so the passage of a bill like this is a win for them because it pushes back against the social liberalization that has them so unsettled.

Like Georgia state Senator Greg Kirk of Americus has repeatedly alluded to in recent days, the passage of this bill makes Georgia a national leader in the ongoing fight over the definition of marriage.

The socially conservative base of the Georgia Republican Party wants and has been itching for this fight ever since the U.S. Supreme Court started ruling in favor of same-sex couples back in 2013 and they especially wanted this fight after the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage last summer.

The current religious liberty controversy is basically the political showdown and cultural war that social conservatives have been wanting for awhile. Needless to say, the law is having its intended effect for them.
B2R

Excellent summation of the situation at hand, but while this may be satisfying their hunger for outright discrimination in the name of religion, in the short run, it won't stand for long, as ultimately the Supreme Court will put an end to this blatant infringement on letting people live their lives as they so choose.

If you don't want to marry them in your backwards church - fine, but after that butt the hell out.
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Old 03-18-2016, 07:05 PM
 
5,358 posts, read 4,883,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilful View Post
B2R

Excellent summation of the situation at hand, but while this may be satisfying their hunger for outright discrimination in the name of religion, in the short run, it won't stand for long, as ultimately the Supreme Court will put an end to this blatant infringement on letting people live their lives as they so choose.

If you don't want to marry them in your backwards church - fine, but after that butt the hell out.
That's an excellent point that this legislation probably would not be able to withstand close judicial scrutiny if challenged in the courts, which would most likely be the case with this piece of highly controversial legislation.

Though, it should be noted that the legislators who voted for this bill would most likely love nothing more than for this legislation to be challenged in the courts so that they can say to their constituents that they are fighting for their religious liberty while the issue stays alive in the news for the next several months.

The people supporting this, especially the legislators who voted for the bill, want this controversy because they want Georgia to be the site of next big battle and the next big front in the 'culture wars' fight so that they can say to their deeply conservative constituents that they are fighting for their conservative values and their religious rights.
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Old 03-18-2016, 07:50 PM
 
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Braves, Hawks and Falcons have come out against this bill
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Old 03-18-2016, 09:19 PM
 
1,809 posts, read 781,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll View Post
That's an excellent point that this legislation probably would not be able to withstand close judicial scrutiny if challenged in the courts, which would most likely be the case with this piece of highly controversial legislation.

Though, it should be noted that the legislators who voted for this bill would most likely love nothing more than for this legislation to be challenged in the courts so that they can say to their constituents that they are fighting for their religious liberty while the issue stays alive in the news for the next several months.

The people supporting this, especially the legislators who voted for the bill, want this controversy because they want Georgia to be the site of next big battle and the next big front in the 'culture wars' fight so that they can say to their deeply conservative constituents that they are fighting for their conservative values and their religious rights.
B2R

Yes I get it and clearly understand their motivation as misguided and myopic as it may be, but I just wish the Georgia Legislature would put a modicum of effort into job creation, the overall Georgia economy and/or improving the quality of life for all its citizens and stop just exclusively pandering to the rural and exurban far right wing cultural zealots, in the State

Probably too much too ask for in this red State, I am mostly happy living in, but the day or reckoning for these misguided, and foolish actions by those clinging to the past, is not too far away. For the sake of my kids and grandchildren I hope I'm right, and I think I am.
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Old 03-18-2016, 10:45 PM
 
5,358 posts, read 4,883,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilful View Post
B2R

Yes I get it and clearly understand their motivation as misguided and myopic as it may be, but I just wish the Georgia Legislature would put a modicum of effort into job creation, the overall Georgia economy and/or improving the quality of life for all its citizens and stop just exclusively pandering to the rural and exurban far right wing cultural zealots, in the State
I hear what you are saying and share many of the very same wishes.

But for the Georgia Legislature, pandering often exclusively to the rural, exurban and outer-suburban hard-right social and religious conservatives is so much easier, because the hard-right social and religious conservatives are the voters who participate the most frequently in elections.

Hard-right social and religious conservatives don't just participate in presidential elections, but also participate most frequently in mid-term general elections and primary elections when much of the rest of the electorate stays home.

Politicians in states like Georgia with deep red electorates know this, so they often tailor their governing agenda specifically to appeal heavily to those hard-right social and religious constituents who they know to be the most dependable voters, especially during election years such as this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilful View Post
Probably too much too ask for in this red State, I am mostly happy living in, but the day or reckoning for these misguided, and foolish actions by those clinging to the past, is not too far away. For the sake of my kids and grandchildren I hope I'm right, and I think I am.
With Georgia's demographics appearing to trend in favor of the state becoming a "majority-minority" state in the not-too-distant future, there does appear to be a good possibility that the state's politics will moderate by moving away from the hard-right and more towards the center of the political spectrum.

But right now we appear to still be many years away from that political shift in Georgia politics because of the continued extreme weakness of the Democratic Party in Georgia.

The Democratic Party of Georgia has pretty much been in a state of retreat and dysfunction for much of the past 13-plus years ever since incumbent Democrat Roy Barnes lost to Republican Sonny Perdue in the governor's race in 2002.

With the complete failure of the Democratic Party to provide balance to the state's political climate by aggressively raising funds, recruiting new voters, reaching out to moderates and centrist residents and turning out voters during primary and general elections during the past 15-plus years of explosive growth in the number of politically moderate and progressive residents in the state along with the continued movement to the right of the national Republican Party, Georgia's political climate has continued to be dominated by archconservatives (by way of the Republican Party after 2002) despite the state's fast-growing population as a whole continuing to trend increasingly towards the center of the political spectrum.

In this particular situation the state continues to be dominated by hard-right conservatives who don't always seem to necessarily have the state's best interests and well-being at heart (particularly during election years when state government feels the pressing need to pander to conservative hard-liners with red-meat legislation that often brings the state unwanted attention).

Likely the only way to change Georgia's current often hard-right leaning political calculus is for the state's currently moribund Democratic Party to work its way back into contention in state politics as a moderate/centrist party that aggressively and relentlessly raises funds, aggressively and relentlessly reaches out to prospective new voters, aggressively and relentlessly registers new voters, turns out centrist, moderate and progressive voters during primary and general elections and puts heavy pressure on the currently-dominant Georgia Republican Party to move away from the hard-right and back to the center of the political spectrum.

Until the Democratic Party of Georgia can rebuild itself back into a political force that is at least equal to the Georgia Republican Party in terms of organization, direction and purpose, the state's political climate will continue to tilt very heavily to the right, particularly during election years like these.
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Old 03-19-2016, 04:59 AM
 
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Okay....Many county Republican parties in Georgia are going to be holding their conventions this weekend, including the county Republican parties of the three most heavily populated counties in the state in Fulton, Gwinnett and Cobb counties and the county Republican Party of what is arguably the most politically powerful county in the state in Hall (both Governor Deal and Lt. Governor Casey Cagle hail from Hall County).

Word has it that whether or not Governor Deal attends any of the county GOP conventions may provide a signal as to whether or not he is going to veto the controversial religious liberty bill.

Deal's attendance at any of the major county GOP conventions is important because each county Republican party in the state gave its official support to religious liberty legislation by way of resolutions at their county conventions last year.

Given the very strong support of the religious liberty effort by the county-level Republican parties, many political onlookers and insiders are saying that the attendance of Governor Deal at any of the county GOP conventions may be a signal that he may sign the religious liberty bill into law, while Governor Deal's absence from the GOP county convention scene this weekend may signal that he may likely veto the religious liberty bill. Stay tuned...
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Old 03-19-2016, 01:48 PM
 
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This city will sink fast if the pass that bill. Boycotts will come left and right
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