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Old 04-11-2016, 06:18 PM
 
Location: In your feelings
2,199 posts, read 1,588,288 times
Reputation: 2169

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
These kids need to get a grip.
After 5 pages of discussion about this complete non-issue of a story, I think it's the adults who keep talking about this who need to get a grip.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Georgia
5,208 posts, read 4,265,201 times
Reputation: 3011
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Build a wall is not racism. Its simply Trump's plan to control our borders like every other country in the world does.
Cool story bro. Tell me, why is it that he doesn't wanna build a wall on our northern border? Or around our international airports? Seems to me he and his racist followers have singled out one group of people. Oh, and don't tell them that there is no longer any net immigration from Mexico and into the US. Their heads might not be able to handle it!

Quote:
So if you want to deny that you are a race baiter, I will be happy to engage you.
That is a codeword that whites who get defensive over race tend to use. You would be wise to avoid that loaded phrase.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:33 AM
bu2
 
9,901 posts, read 6,375,461 times
Reputation: 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Cool story bro. Tell me, why is it that he doesn't wanna build a wall on our northern border? Or around our international airports? Seems to me he and his racist followers have singled out one group of people. Oh, and don't tell them that there is no longer any net immigration from Mexico and into the US. Their heads might not be able to handle it!



That is a codeword that whites who get defensive over race tend to use. You would be wise to avoid that loaded phrase.
Well there aren't 500 million low skilled workers who would make a lot more if they crossed our northern border. The Canadians actually want to keep US out. And there are not major Canadian drug cartels running cities and provinces north of our border.

So yes, its racebaiting to try to shut off conversation by saying those who disagree are racists. Its the new version of Godwin's law, but people use it at the start of a conversation instead of when its winding down.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:44 AM
 
29,255 posts, read 26,188,598 times
Reputation: 10208
I'm not in favor of this wall with Mexico but the U.S. should be able to control its borders. Every other country does but you don't hear them being called racists.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:49 AM
bu2
 
9,901 posts, read 6,375,461 times
Reputation: 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I'm not in favor of this wall with Mexico but the U.S. should be able to control its borders. Every other country does but you don't hear them being called racists.
I don't agree with Trump either. Some places there should be walls. Some places there are better alternatives. But its a legitimate discussion.
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Old 04-12-2016, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Home of the Braves
1,164 posts, read 962,814 times
Reputation: 1149
The weird thing is that the illegal immigrant population has stabilized over the last ten years (declined as a percentage of population) and yet we're freaking out about it now. Why is that? I think nativism and racial resentment are clearly part of that story. I mean, come on. Unless you've somehow managed to block out all the ugly rhetoric and demagoguery, I don't see how you could argue otherwise.

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Old 04-12-2016, 02:12 PM
 
2,071 posts, read 1,790,712 times
Reputation: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron H View Post
The weird thing is that the illegal immigrant population has stabilized over the last ten years (declined as a percentage of population) and yet we're freaking out about it now. Why is that? I think nativism and racial resentment are clearly part of that story. I mean, come on. Unless you've somehow managed to block out all the ugly rhetoric and demagoguery, I don't see how you could argue otherwise.
People have been concerned about it for as long as I can remember. I think economic uncertainty,and heightened terrorism fears play a much bigger role in "folks freaking out"--I mean despite the extreme views you get on the Internet---the US is waaaay less racist than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago--but (where it matters to most people) the U.S. economic dominance is declining, and between outsourcing, automation, and free trade--no one should feel that their job is safe--unskilled, skilled or super-skilled.
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Home of the Braves
1,164 posts, read 962,814 times
Reputation: 1149
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeoff View Post
People have been concerned about it for as long as I can remember. I think economic uncertainty,and heightened terrorism fears play a much bigger role in "folks freaking out"--I mean despite the extreme views you get on the Internet---the US is waaaay less racist than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago--but (where it matters to most people) the U.S. economic dominance is declining, and between outsourcing, automation, and free trade--no one should feel that their job is safe--unskilled, skilled or super-skilled.
I don't really buy "heightened terrorism fears." After 9/11 and while we were at war in Iraq and Afghanistan, you had the Republican president (along with the usual GOP suspects in the Senate) strongly backing the 2007 immigration reform bill, which included a guest worker program and pathway to citizenship. There was no mass outcry from the right. Something else must have happened between then and now...

And we're not just talking about border security, which makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. Other aspects of the issue are more revealing. The anti-"amnesty" purity test within the Republican base. At some point between 2008 and 2012, the base decided that illegal immigrants had to be rounded up and deported, period. You're now a law-abiding, hard-working, contributing member of society? We don't care -- you committed a misdemeanor to get here so you cannot be allowed to stay. It doesn't matter if you pay a fine, go through a process, a waiting period, whatever -- you need to go back to Mexico. Pushes for state and local laws making English the official language. That's not about terrorism fears or economic anxiety or anything else -- it's simple nativism and white nationalism. All the birther nonsense, same deal. I could go on, but I won't because it's off topic and we're not likely to reach any agreement anyway.

I do agree that the country as a whole is less racist today. But I think there's a substantial segment (40-50%) of the Republican base that is a pure White Christian Nationalist bloc, and they're just as racist (and nativist) as they ever were.
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Old 04-12-2016, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Vinings
6,309 posts, read 3,385,503 times
Reputation: 3517
We should go in the opposite direction with Mexico, that Trump wants to go. We should tear down walls, not build them up. Become a close ally, friend, trade partner, business and economic partner, like we are with Canada. Mutual benefit. Build trains and highways between us, and let their teams in our sports leagues, etc. Make immigration and visitation a lot easier.

Improve the relationship, then you can work with Mexico to fight their cartels and corruption problems. Then we have the advantage of letting them being a buffer state between us and the unstable and crime-plagued countries in Central America.

Biggest thing, #1 thing we can do to help them out and ourselves out and our cross-border relations, and fight gangs and cartels, is reverse the drug war policies and end the war on drugs. Legalize soft drugs, decriminalize personal usage of hard drugs and treat addiction as a medical issue, instead of treat the world of drugs from a nanny state moral police perspective.

There's no reason why Mexico can't be one of the great and powerful countries of the world, and one of our closest friends. They have one of the entire world's greatest cities as their capital, and a whole lot of amazingly beautiful coastline. And good food. They have problems but they can work on them. We shouldn't demonize or cut off Mexico.
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Old 04-12-2016, 04:33 PM
bu2
 
9,901 posts, read 6,375,461 times
Reputation: 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeoff View Post
People have been concerned about it for as long as I can remember. I think economic uncertainty,and heightened terrorism fears play a much bigger role in "folks freaking out"--I mean despite the extreme views you get on the Internet---the US is waaaay less racist than it was 10, 20, 30 years ago--but (where it matters to most people) the U.S. economic dominance is declining, and between outsourcing, automation, and free trade--no one should feel that their job is safe--unskilled, skilled or super-skilled.
Look at all the stats about underemployment, people leaving the workforce and the struggles of middle class workers without college educations. Its been a long time since we had a booming economy for those people. The fact that a socialist and a reality TV show host are doing so well in the presidential race is a loud and clear "freak out" with the status quo. And then you top it off with terrorism and how Europe's open borders have led to mass murder.

And as you say, no job is safe these days. Companies, while complaining about employee loyalty, are much less loyal to employees.
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