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Yeah but I mean, we voted for Hillary. In 2018 this is a blue, Democratic majority county. (At least currently, anyway.) So go yell at deep-red Forsyth and Hall county and leave us alone, by your own logic.
I'm an atheist liberal. I despise conservatives with every fiber of my being. I moved here across the river because it's nice here. I like it. And it was affordable. I love Atlanta, of which I consider myself a resident. I live like a mile or so outside of city limits, in unincorporated Atlanta. I can't vote for mayor or anything, or receive city services. But it's not like I live in another city. This metro is all one metro area, anyway.
The history of Cobb is embarrassing. The anti-MARTA and anti-Atlanta (Chattahoochee Plantation, etc). The anti-gay thing in the early 90's that cost the county participation in the Olympics. The anti-evolution textbook sticker in the early 2000's. And I'm sure more embarrassing stuff that I don't know about.
But the history of Georgia in general is very embarrassing. Even the history of City of Atlanta is embarrassing, if you go back far enough. So what? Don't we need to move on and focus on the future?
And actually my most liberal friends I've ever had, all live in Cobb. In fact the very most 2 liberal (socialist, actually) people that I know, one of them lives in Kennesaw, one in East Cobb. Both have families.
The Cobb stereotypes are lazy, and wrong. I don't stereotype Atlanta, so don't stereotype my community.
Cobb has certainly produced its share of outspoken conservatives but so has the city of Atlanta (e.g., Lester Maddox, the Colombians, James Davis, and a huge host of others.
Using the MARTA vote as some sort of gauge as to how horrible Cobb is compared to the COA just doesn't stand up. When MARTA first came up for a vote in 1968 it was rejected by ALL the metro counties AND by the city of Atlanta. In the city the vote was 53,660 (58%) against, with only 38,675 (42%) in favor.
I don't know if it's fair to say that there ever has been a MARTA vote in Cobb. At least not in the Cobb that exists now.
The Cobb that had a tiny fraction of the population as now (and a tiny fraction of the economic development), a county that was of a different character and that had no diversity, and that was made up almost entirely of white people in the civil rights era that were largely scared of black people and anything urban, rejected MARTA. Like 50 freaking years ago.
Since then, there's been no voter rejection, there's just simply been not enough movement on the issue from either the leadership, or the people. But I believe if that vote had ever happened in today's modern Cobb, the results would probably be that it would pass.
But now it's sounding like it's a moot point, since Cobb will probably just pass a sales tax for transit, that behind the scenes would be operated by MARTA, but that won't be a question to the voters on whether to join MARTA.
I don't know if it's fair to say that there ever has been a MARTA vote in Cobb. At least not in the Cobb that exists now.
The Cobb that had a tiny fraction of the population as now (and a tiny fraction of the economic development), a county that was of a different character and that had no diversity, and that was made up almost entirely of white people in the civil rights era that were largely scared of black people and anything urban, rejected MARTA. Like 50 freaking years ago.
Since then, there's been no voter rejection, there's just simply been not enough movement on the issue from either the leadership, or the people. But I believe if that vote had ever happened in today's modern Cobb, the results would probably be that it would pass.
But now it's sounding like it's a moot point, since Cobb will probably just pass a sales tax for transit, that behind the scenes would be operated by MARTA, but that won't be a question to the voters on whether to join MARTA.
Cobb was pretty rural when it was asked to vote on MARTA. It had a density of less than 1 person per acre, whereas most authorities say you need at least 20 dwelling units per acre to make transit work.
Cobb was pretty rural when it was asked to vote on MARTA. It had a density of less than 1 person per acre, whereas most authorities say you need at least 20 dwelling units per acre to make transit work.
Right. So that specific rejection at that specific time wasn't really necessarily the world's biggest blunder. It was a lack of early foresight perhaps, but one that could and should have been corrected later on. The blunder was that that correction didn't happen.
As soon as residents in the south and inner parts of Cobb were starting to get really anxious about it, to sort of "throw a bone" at transit, county leadership created Cobb Community Transit in the late 1980's. That was a huge mistake. Like what is now the MARTA Red Line along 400, should have gone to Cobb along I-75, and Perimeter was originally only supposed to get a bus-way. Cobb leadership doing that was a huge short-sighted blunder, because of economic and social conservatism in the county. But, it was not put to a public referendum.
Yeah but I mean, we voted for Hillary. In 2018 this is a blue, Democratic majority county. (At least currently, anyway.) So go yell at deep-red Forsyth and Hall county and leave us alone, by your own logic.
I'm an atheist liberal. I despise conservatives with every fiber of my being. I moved here across the river because it's nice here. I like it. And it was affordable. I love Atlanta, of which I consider myself a resident. I live like a mile or so outside of city limits, in unincorporated Atlanta. I can't vote for mayor or anything, or receive city services. But it's not like I live in another city. This metro is all one metro area, anyway.
The history of Cobb is embarrassing. The anti-MARTA and anti-Atlanta (Chattahoochee Plantation, etc). The anti-gay thing in the early 90's that cost the county participation in the Olympics. The anti-evolution textbook sticker in the early 2000's. And I'm sure more embarrassing stuff that I don't know about.
But the history of Georgia in general is very embarrassing. Even the history of City of Atlanta is embarrassing, if you go back far enough. So what? Don't we need to move on and focus on the future?
And actually my most liberal friends I've ever had, all live in Cobb. In fact the very most 2 liberal (socialist, actually) people that I know, one of them lives in Kennesaw, one in East Cobb. Both have families.
The Cobb stereotypes are lazy, and wrong. I don't stereotype Atlanta, so don't stereotype my community.
That is a great point that Cobb County went for Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Presidential Election, the first time that Cobb County had gone for a Democrat in a presidential election in 40 years (Jimmy Carter, 1976).
Though with other Republican candidates (including Cobb County Sheriff Neil Warren and Georgia U.S. Senator Johnny Isakson) getting far higher vote totals than either of the two candidates in the 2016 presidential election, Cobb County would probably best be described as a purplish-red swing county that is trending heavily towards purple status politically and that is trending heavily towards 'majority-minority' status demographically in the not-too-distant future.
It is also very understandable that a political/social/cultural progressive like yourself might have a strong dislike of, if not conservatives themselves, then definitely much of the deeply-conservative hard-right rhetoric that has come out of the famous/infamous hotbed of suburban conservatism that Cobb County has been widely recognized as during much of its history as a fast-growing and increasingly heavily-developed suburb of Atlanta during the post-World War II era.
Your comments about the history of a county like Cobb being embarrassing also raises an important point... That Cobb County's sometimes highly-controversial history as a Southeastern hotbed of deep suburban conservatism (that has often thrived by taking high-profile hard right-of-center political/social/cultural positions that were directly in opposition to the left-of-center political/social/cultural positions of the neighboring City of Atlanta) is one of the major reasons why Cobb County may continue to get so much flack from City of Atlanta residents when it comes to a high-profile issue like the fiscal challenges surrounding Cobb County's acquisition of the Braves from Atlanta.
That is a good point that many of the stereotypes surrounding Cobb County are incorrect.
But the stereotypes about Cobb County are not completely unwarranted.
Cobb County has a long history of bitterly opposing the City of Atlanta on multiple high-profile fronts, from the creation of the City of Chattahoochee Plantation as a buffer against the potential expansion of a majority-black City of Atlanta into Cobb County back in the 1960's, to the repeated and ongoing rejection of the expansion of MARTA Heavy Rail Transit into the county over the past 50+ years, to the high-profile Anti-Gay Resolution during the lead-up to the 1996 Olympics that became a public relations debacle of international proportions, to Cobb County's early-on secret acquisition of the Braves from the CoA (...a move that many both inside and outside of Cobb saw as a direct adversarial move towards the City of Atlanta).
With such a long and storied history of apparently decided adversarial actions aimed directly at the City of Atlanta by Cobb County, it should come as no surprise that Cobb County continues to get flack from City of Atlanta residents when the county's government experiences notable fiscal challenges because of a Braves acquisition that many viewed as having adversarial intentions towards the City of Atlanta.
Make no mistake, Cobb County has come a very long way from a past era when an (often virulently) anti-Atlanta attitude was an intense source of pride for a very large proportion of residents in the county... A dramatic change in attitude that has come as a result of the county's close-in location to the City of Atlanta, as well as the very hard work and leadership of the county's highly-aspirational business community... A Cobb County business community that wants to see the county be a leading member of a metro Atlanta community that continues to gain international influence.
And even with as controversial a move that it has been both inside and outside of the county, Cobb County's acquisition of the Atlanta Braves away from the City of Atlanta was a very strong signal that the county wants to be much more of a key member of a metro Atlanta community that the county's political, social and cultural apparatus often used to shun and abhor being part of in the past.
But even with the county's changing attitudes and growing acceptance of being a participating member of the metro Atlanta regional community, the fact remains that Cobb County has often had a highly-adversarial relationship with the City of Atlanta that is going to continue to make the county a high-profile target for criticism.
Make no mistake, Cobb County has come a very long way from a past era when an (often virulently) anti-Atlanta attitude was an intense source of pride for a very large proportion of residents in the county... A dramatic change in attitude that has come as a result of the county's close-in location to the City of Atlanta, as well as the very hard work and leadership of the county's highly-aspirational business community... A Cobb County business community that wants to see the county be a leading member of a metro Atlanta community that continues to gain international influence.
And even with as controversial a move that it has been both inside and outside of the county, Cobb County's acquisition of the Atlanta Braves away from the City of Atlanta was a very strong signal that the county wants to be much more of a key member of a metro Atlanta community that the county's political, social and cultural apparatus often used to shun and abhor being part of in the past.
But even with the county's changing attitudes and growing acceptance of being a participating member of the metro Atlanta regional community, the fact remains that Cobb County has often had a highly-adversarial relationship with the City of Atlanta that is going to continue to make the county a high-profile target for criticism.
Leave us not forget that the city of Atlanta has a long history of extreme conservatism and racism. That continued well up into the 1960s and many would argue that elements of it are still present. Atlanta bitterly fought integration and refused to allow black students to attend Atlanta public schools until nearly a decade after the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Atlanta lagged behind many other cities and refused to allow blacks to eat at white restaurants or stay in white hotels, go to white parks, or even be treated at white hospitals.
Yes, we have made progress but I'm not sure the city of Atlanta needs to get up on a high horse about its supposedly enlightened status.
That is a great point that Cobb County went for Hillary Clinton in the 2016 Presidential Election, the first time that Cobb County had gone for a Democrat in a presidential election in 40 years (Jimmy Carter, 1976).
Though with other Republican candidates (including Cobb County Sheriff Neil Warren and Georgia U.S. Senator Johnny Isakson) getting far higher vote totals than either of the two candidates in the 2016 presidential election, Cobb County would probably best be described as a purplish-red swing county that is trending heavily towards purple status politically and that is trending heavily towards 'majority-minority' status demographically in the not-too-distant future.
It is also very understandable that a political/social/cultural progressive like yourself might have a strong dislike of, if not conservatives themselves, then definitely much of the deeply-conservative hard-right rhetoric that has come out of the famous/infamous hotbed of suburban conservatism that Cobb County has been widely recognized as during much of its history as a fast-growing and increasingly heavily-developed suburb of Atlanta during the post-World War II era.
Your comments about the history of a county like Cobb being embarrassing also raises an important point... That Cobb County's sometimes highly-controversial history as a Southeastern hotbed of deep suburban conservatism (that has often thrived by taking high-profile hard right-of-center political/social/cultural positions that were directly in opposition to the left-of-center political/social/cultural positions of the neighboring City of Atlanta) is one of the major reasons why Cobb County may continue to get so much flack from City of Atlanta residents when it comes to a high-profile issue like the fiscal challenges surrounding Cobb County's acquisition of the Braves from Atlanta.
That is a good point that many of the stereotypes surrounding Cobb County are incorrect.
But the stereotypes about Cobb County are not completely unwarranted.
Cobb County has a long history of bitterly opposing the City of Atlanta on multiple high-profile fronts, from the creation of the City of Chattahoochee Plantation as a buffer against the potential expansion of a majority-black City of Atlanta into Cobb County back in the 1960's, to the repeated and ongoing rejection of the expansion of MARTA Heavy Rail Transit into the county over the past 50+ years, to the high-profile Anti-Gay Resolution during the lead-up to the 1996 Olympics that became a public relations debacle of international proportions, to Cobb County's early-on secret acquisition of the Braves from the CoA (...a move that many both inside and outside of Cobb saw as a direct adversarial move towards the City of Atlanta).
With such a long and storied history of apparently decided adversarial actions aimed directly at the City of Atlanta by Cobb County, it should come as no surprise that Cobb County continues to get flack from City of Atlanta residents when the county's government experiences notable fiscal challenges because of a Braves acquisition that many viewed as having adversarial intentions towards the City of Atlanta.
Make no mistake, Cobb County has come a very long way from a past era when an (often virulently) anti-Atlanta attitude was an intense source of pride for a very large proportion of residents in the county... A dramatic change in attitude that has come as a result of the county's close-in location to the City of Atlanta, as well as the very hard work and leadership of the county's highly-aspirational business community... A Cobb County business community that wants to see the county be a leading member of a metro Atlanta community that continues to gain international influence.
And even with as controversial a move that it has been both inside and outside of the county, Cobb County's acquisition of the Atlanta Braves away from the City of Atlanta was a very strong signal that the county wants to be much more of a key member of a metro Atlanta community that the county's political, social and cultural apparatus often used to shun and abhor being part of in the past.
But even with the county's changing attitudes and growing acceptance of being a participating member of the metro Atlanta regional community, the fact remains that Cobb County has often had a highly-adversarial relationship with the City of Atlanta that is going to continue to make the county a high-profile target for criticism.
So thoroughly and eloquently put, as usual. I appreciate your post so much. Everything you said is correct.
My only point is that we need to all try to meet in the middle, and give this thing a fair shot. It's fine to disagree with the merits of the Braves deal or with the deal itself, but we're going to need more than 9 months of a not even fully-constructed yet development, to determine if it's been a success or not, in terms of net return. And Cobb's strategy on dealing with the county's budget deficit (a strategy and a general situation which I don't like at all) is a separate issue.
Like, how much revenue is that massive nice Omni hotel going to bring in for the county, over the next few decades? Thing just opened like last week.
Leave us not forget that the city of Atlanta has a long history of extreme conservatism and racism. That continued well up into the 1960s and many would argue that elements of it are still present. Atlanta bitterly fought integration and refused to allow black students to attend Atlanta public schools until nearly a decade after the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Atlanta lagged behind many other cities and refused to allow blacks to eat at white restaurants or stay in white hotels, go to white parks, or even be treated at white hospitals.
Yes, we have made progress but I'm not sure the city of Atlanta needs to get up on a high horse about its supposedly enlightened status.
I agree. Cobb has been a slower climb of social progress than City of Atlanta, no doubt, but that's pretty typical of suburbs. Admittedly, Cobb in the 20th century was a particularly notorious example of conservatism at its ugliest, but being slow on social issues progress is typical of everywhere the South, and Atlanta has an embarrassing history too. But things change.
B2R is right that it's premature to call Cobb a progressive county just yet, but it's at least certainly a moderate county. And we're only 18 years into this new century. I'm just saying, wish people could give us a break when it comes to grudges of the past. Let's see how this thing goes from here out.
As far as county leadership, at least we can all agree that Lisa Cupid is wonderful. But I also really like Bob Ott as well. And Mike Boyce has been totally fine. I haven't disliked or disagreed with anything I've seen from him.
And even the other 2 commissioners from the north of the county, they're old-guard, they're conservative I guess, but they're really nice folks. None of these people are doing anything at all to harm Atlanta.
I mean, let's at least all unite in frustration with the Braves organization themselves, and their parent company. That's the shady entity here.
Leave us not forget that the city of Atlanta has a long history of extreme conservatism and racism. That continued well up into the 1960s and many would argue that elements of it are still present. Atlanta bitterly fought integration and refused to allow black students to attend Atlanta public schools until nearly a decade after the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Atlanta lagged behind many other cities and refused to allow blacks to eat at white restaurants or stay in white hotels, go to white parks, or even be treated at white hospitals.
Yes, we have made progress but I'm not sure the city of Atlanta needs to get up on a high horse about its supposedly enlightened status.
That is a good point that the City of Atlanta has a long history of extreme conservatism and racism that continued well into the 1960's (...for a prime example that past extreme conservatism and racism, look no further than the extremely racist rhetoric and actions of former Georgia Governor Lester Maddox when he was a private citizen and business owner in Midtown Atlanta before he was elected governor).
But with the City of Atlanta being the home of an internationally-renown civil rights leader like Martin Luther King, Jr. as well as other progressive forward-looking civic leaders, and with the City of Atlanta being recognized all over the world as the cradle of the Civil Rights Movement and having a reputation of being a "black mecca" and an oasis and hotbed of extremely forward-looking progressivism in a deeply-conservative (and historically often regressive) Southeastern U.S. region, the City of Atlanta's history of extreme conservatism and racism is most often overlooked and completely overshadowed by its international reputation and post-World War II history as one of the nation's most progressive cities.
Atlanta might have lagged behind many other cities when it came to integration through the 1960's, but with the city effectively utilizing the mantra and putting forth the image of being "the city that was too busy to hate," Atlanta had the reputation of being ahead of the curve when it came to integration in the Southeastern U.S. region, especially when compared to other nearby parts of the Southeast like Alabama and Mississippi.
Atlanta's proud post-1950 history as the cradle of the Civil Rights Movement, as a "black mecca" and as an extremely aspirational and forward-looking progressive leading city of the Southeastern U.S. is understandably going to strongly motivate many of the city's residents to think that they have the higher standing when it comes to issues of race, economic development and political ideology.
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