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Old 05-06-2018, 02:11 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,045 posts, read 17,204,336 times
Reputation: 5256

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Why replace MARTA signage? It's about to be ATL anyway.
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Old 05-06-2018, 03:19 PM
 
Location: East Side of ATL
4,303 posts, read 5,956,215 times
Reputation: 1890
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
More on the need to flood the zone with frequent modern buses.
The issue in Gwinnett is that they have mostly 40 foot buses but the not ridership so it doesn't make sense to flood the zone because ridership is low on most routes. Most of their routes need MARTA Community Circulator size buses.

The 30-60 minutes headways in Gwinnett don't help the situation either.
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Old 05-06-2018, 04:37 PM
 
28,946 posts, read 25,857,303 times
Reputation: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKCorey View Post
The issue in Gwinnett is that they have mostly 40 foot buses but the not ridership so it doesn't make sense to flood the zone because ridership is low on most routes. Most of their routes need MARTA Community Circulator size buses.

The 30-60 minutes headways in Gwinnett don't help the situation either.
These buses are available in a variety of sizes from 30 to 60 feet. I would load up areas like Gwinnett and Cobb with the smaller 35-40 foot units and have them running on frequent schedules.

Look at a city like Shenzen. They are operating over 16,000 of these no-emission vehicles. Curbed - How a Chinese city turned all its 16,000 buses electric

Let's say we added just 10% of that to our metro fleet. Can you imagine the immediate and dramatic impact that would have on our tens of thousands of current, active transit-dependent (not projected or possible) riders?

Wow! That would be some real bang for the buck.

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Old 05-06-2018, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
1,994 posts, read 2,150,996 times
Reputation: 2213
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Yawn
What a waste of this forum and everyone's time.

Please use this forum to make the world a better place.

I've gotten about 500 things fixed on major roads intown.

EVERY readable, new, green, street name sign hanging over intersections on Piedmont Ave./Rd.

FROM 5TH STREET (in Midtown) ALL THE WAY TO SIDNEY MARCUS BLVD (in Buckhead)

is because of my repeated requests to Public Works spanning years.

Just today I sent 4th or 5th request for the Lindbergh facing green signs at Piedmont intersection to be replaced since only 4 letters of "Piedmont Rd" are visible.

I also am gathering information for new owner of Modera Morningside who is amenable to possibly paying for a mast-arm pole to replace the sagging clothesline-like traffic signal at the entrance of Sprouts.


Regarding the ATL....

I hope and predict that it the entire system cannot/won't be one name.

No distinction from the airport code with multiple differenct modes of transporation will require lengthy instruction for visitors, wayfinding, etc.

Even though the agency would be called that, is everyone certain that just 3 letters would be the sole identifier of buses, trains, regional shuttles etc?

The MTA in New York still calls the subway, buses, and Long Island RR by these descriptors.

MARTA is iconic, and natural, good-sounding acronyms are hard to come by and have value.
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Old 05-06-2018, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,045 posts, read 17,204,336 times
Reputation: 5256
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
These buses are available in a variety of sizes from 30 to 60 feet. I would load up areas like Gwinnett and Cobb with the smaller 35-40 foot units and have them running on frequent schedules.

Look at a city like Shenzen. They are operating over 16,000 of these no-emission vehicles. Curbed - How a Chinese city turned all its 16,000 buses electric

Let's say we added just 10% of that to our metro fleet. Can you imagine the immediate and dramatic impact that would have on our tens of thousands of current, active transit-dependent (not projected or possible) riders?

Wow! That would be some real bang for the buck.

Where did you get your transit planning degree?
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Old 05-06-2018, 08:37 PM
 
28,946 posts, read 25,857,303 times
Reputation: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Where did you get your transit planning degree?
cq, you know I don't have any degrees. I'm just trying to apply my own limited personal experience and come up with some ideas that will help people and make their lives better. If my suggestions are no good, so be it.
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Old 05-06-2018, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,551 posts, read 2,975,457 times
Reputation: 2254
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
These buses are available in a variety of sizes from 30 to 60 feet. I would load up areas like Gwinnett and Cobb with the smaller 35-40 foot units and have them running on frequent schedules.

Look at a city like Shenzen. They are operating over 16,000 of these no-emission vehicles. Curbed - How a Chinese city turned all its 16,000 buses electric

Let's say we added just 10% of that to our metro fleet. Can you imagine the immediate and dramatic impact that would have on our tens of thousands of current, active transit-dependent (not projected or possible) riders?

Wow! That would be some real bang for the buck.

The additional 1,600 buses you propose would require a lot more than you're implying by saying we should 'just flood' the metro area.

First of all, MARTA currently operates a bit more than 550 buses in its fleet. In 2017, the bus system cost $4.03 per Passenger Trip to run (page 36). There were 57,504,353 riders in for MARTA's bus system in 2017 (page 41). That works out to $231,742,543 in bus operations in 2017, which is roughly $421,350.08 per bus for 2017. We'll round that to $421,000.00 to make things a bit simpler.

Now, I'm going to be super-duper nice and cut that per-bus value in half for your total suggested 2,150 bus fleet by assuming both efficiency gains from electric buses, and a higher farebox recovery ratio, even though neither of those two things are guaranteed. Certainly they aren't guaranteed year one.

So, that means that we'd need $452,575,000.00 a year to just operate that fleet, or nearly twice the current bus operating costs. (Whoa. Nearly quadruple the fleet, then cut costs in half, and you get double! Isn't math fun?)

To put that into perspective, MARTA's total sales tax revenue in FY 2017 was $429,886,048.95, and their total revenue was $705,722,123.49 (page 19)

You'd be surpassing the entire existing sales tax revenue with operating buses alone, and using up 60% of the total revenue for the entire 3-county system just on buses. That's IF you managed to cut per-bus operations in half. That's a big if.

If instead we saw similar per-bus operations costs as there are today, we'd need $905,150,000.00 per year to operate your fleet, which is nearly quadruple the current bus expenditures, is nearly double the current sales tax revenue, and is 30% more than the agency brings in in revenue in total.


As if that all wasn't crazy enough, we need to keep in mind where the heck you're going to put all those buses. MARTA's bus facilities include three bus operations facilities, and one heavy bus maintenance facility for the current 550 buses. That means we'll need four times the facilities to handle the new fleet. That's 9 new operations facilities, and three new maintenance facilities.

Then we have to staff all those facilities, and equip them with tools, and probably expand some of the other main operations centers who coordinate routes and vehicles.

Oh, and not to mention the new police officers needed to secure those buses' routes and the facilities.

That's all without getting into any new bus-only transit ways that would be needed to get the most out of such a large fleet. No signal prioritization, no bus stop upgrades, no lane-repainting, nor road rebuilding, nor new transit terminals.

Oh, and, finally, I haven't even brought in the initial costs of buying those buses, and planning out the new routes, new facilities, the aquisitions, the route upgrades, and everything else needing engineering work before a single bus can hit the streets.

Adding Cobb and Gwinnett to the revenue streams doesn't fix anything, since their combined sales tax revenue would be ~$300,000,000 a year, which is well below the current sales tax revenue, and no where near the additional revenue needed. Especially since, no matter how some might claim otherwise, both counties do need some form of both commuter and heavy rail presence, which eats into that new revenue real fast.

After all, Shenzhen, the city that Curbed article you linked to talks about, has an 8-line heavy rail system, a 2-line light rail system, and a whole bunch of intercity and long-distance passenger rail lines that those 16,000 buses operate along side. All of which, I might add, is in the process of growing.



Arjay, as much as you might not like to admit it, and as much as I want to agree with you on adding tons of new buses to the fleet, there is a reason why things are the way they are, and it's that trying to do what you suggest is infeasibly expensive and horrendously complicated. There is no 'just' to any of it. None.

We would need to increase the system's total revenues by a **** ton if we were to have any hope of operating such a system, let alone acquiring it in the first place, and I just do not see that as a realistic option no matter how much you want the 'laughing chairs' to finance it.

If you can magic up nearly the entire agency's revenue stream in additional funding, then you need to go get yourself a meeting with Mr.Parker, because I'm sure he'd love to hear from you. In the mean time, I think it's safe to calm down on that suggestion a bit.
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:13 AM
 
4,806 posts, read 3,169,304 times
Reputation: 3172
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Yawn
Why is it yawn-worthy to want to have working, legible signs that look like they are from this millennium? For those of us who aren't spandex-clad uber-bikers who take transit multiple times daily, having working informational signage is pretty important. I've been on MARTA plenty of times where the signs aren't working at all, or are completely wrong. And since phones often don't work down in the stations, trying to look the info up online is pointless.
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:30 AM
JPD
 
12,161 posts, read 14,928,131 times
Reputation: 7899
I'd like it if MARTA would add some "next train arriving" displays outside the station, so I would know if I needed to hightail it to the platform or take my time.

Of course, this only works if their displays (and app) are reliable, and as I've already demonstrated, they aren't.
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:44 AM
 
4,806 posts, read 3,169,304 times
Reputation: 3172
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
We would need to increase the system's total revenues by a **** ton if we were to have any hope of operating such a system, let alone acquiring it in the first place, and I just do not see that as a realistic option no matter how much you want the 'laughing chairs' to finance it.
It should be almost entirely funded by users, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
I'd like it if MARTA would add some "next train arriving" displays outside the station, so I would know if I needed to hightail it to the platform or take my time.

Of course, this only works if their displays (and app) are reliable, and as I've already demonstrated, they aren't.
Oh yeah, there's nothing worse than hearing the train leave as you're hitting the stairs.
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