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Old 05-18-2016, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,243 posts, read 16,284,161 times
Reputation: 4924

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Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
So, streetcar=light rail? They're one in the same thing?

I guess I'm just confused by all this. MARTA's proposal for North Ave corridor specifically says LRT, and doesn't say streetcar.

If it's 2 streetcars linked together to make a light rail, then what happens when it turns into downtown?

And it would run in a dedicated lane Crosstown/Midtown, but not on the existing downtown loop?

Just doesn't make any sense. And MARTA does not even own or operate the streetcar.
The existing streetcar stations would have to be lengthened to accommodate the 2 car trains.
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Old 05-18-2016, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,417 posts, read 2,761,965 times
Reputation: 2174
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
The existing streetcar stations would have to be lengthened to accommodate the 2 car trains.
Yeup. The paired trains were tested on the track, but the stations are too short to accommodate them.

If we get the full loop, I wouldn't be surprised if the 2-car trains only ran on the BeltLine, with the other crosstown routes being single vehicle trains.
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,965 posts, read 2,948,722 times
Reputation: 3213
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Yeup. The paired trains were tested on the track, but the stations are too short to accommodate them.

If we get the full loop, I wouldn't be surprised if the 2-car trains only ran on the BeltLine, with the other crosstown routes being single vehicle trains.
If that's the case, then what they're calling a "light rail" line running across North Avenue, cleverly infers a train, but is closer in size and capacity to an articulated bus. It'll just be the existing streetcar that nobody rides, except maybe some of it will run its own lane (where North has 3 lanes a side), but probably not the whole thing. And it will probably not be a very frequent or reliable service.
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,417 posts, read 2,761,965 times
Reputation: 2174
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
If that's the case, then what they're calling a "light rail" line running across North Avenue, cleverly infers a train, but is closer in size and capacity to an articulated bus. It'll just be the existing streetcar that nobody rides, except maybe some of it will run its own lane (where North has 3 lanes a side), but probably not the whole thing. And it will probably not be a very frequent or reliable service.
Remember that we're making a lot of assumptions here.

It could very well be that MARTA/the city intends to use coupled trains over the single vehicles on all the routes. It could be that only a few routes will use them instead of the single vehicle streetcar operation. It could be that extending platforms will be in the budget. It could be that only new platforms will be long enough to use the 2 vehicle trains.

We don't know yet.

I do think you're a bit presumptuous in implying that no one will ride a North Ave streetcar simply because it doesn't have another vehicle coupled to it. I also think you're being presumptuous about the frequency or reliability as well. Even if we maintain the current 15 min headways, that'll be much more frequent than the bus routes along the same corridor, and given the push for increased frequencies across the bus system, I think that it's not too much to think it'll get better. Both MARTA and the city have been talking grade, or at least lane separated transit with the streetcars/light rail, and that should greatly improve reliability.

I'm going to withhold criticisms about things like frequencies and reliability until more details come out.
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Old 05-18-2016, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
400 posts, read 301,862 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Remember that we're making a lot of assumptions here.

It could very well be that MARTA/the city intends to use coupled trains over the single vehicles on all the routes. It could be that only a few routes will use them instead of the single vehicle streetcar operation. It could be that extending platforms will be in the budget. It could be that only new platforms will be long enough to use the 2 vehicle trains.

We don't know yet.

I do think you're a bit presumptuous in implying that no one will ride a North Ave streetcar simply because it doesn't have another vehicle coupled to it. I also think you're being presumptuous about the frequency or reliability as well. Even if we maintain the current 15 min headways, that'll be much more frequent than the bus routes along the same corridor, and given the push for increased frequencies across the bus system, I think that it's not too much to think it'll get better. Both MARTA and the city have been talking grade, or at least lane separated transit with the streetcars/light rail, and that should greatly improve reliability.

I'm going to withhold criticisms about things like frequencies and reliability until more details come out.
I hope the LRT/Streetcar runs at least as frequent as Marta HRT runs, every 12 minutes for the better part of the day every 10 minutes during rush hour and every 20 minutes at night
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,417 posts, read 2,761,965 times
Reputation: 2174
ATLANTA COUNCIL BEGINS REVIEW OF MARTA HALF-PENNY TAX PROJECTS, INFRASTRUCTURE TAX PROJECTS | Atlanta Progressive News

Quote:
The City Council of Atlanta is now beginning the process of preparing to review two proposed project lists–one for MARTA and one for infrastructure projects–for two possible upcoming voter referenda on a half-penny sales tax.
Quote:
MARTA has released its wish list of projects for its possible half-penny, which the City is now considering.

Meanwhile, the City will be preparing its infrastructure improvement list for the other referenda, which, by law, could either be a half-penny or quarter-penny, although the City will likely pursue the half-penny, given the unmet infrastructure needs.
Quote:
Chairwoman Yolanda Adrean (District 8) also raised a concern about the City’s staffing capacity to administer that many transportation projects, saying that the City was clearly not ready

Mullinax said the staff of the City’s Planning Department would be putting together a list, and presenting it to the Council.
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Old 05-19-2016, 03:18 PM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,957,017 times
Reputation: 3032
Atlanta City Council takes up transportation project lists

Quote:
...Bond and others suggested MARTA might consider giving up for now on the expensive heavy rail project along I-20 in favor of more light rail projects that could reach more neighborhoods.

Atlanta BeltLine Executive Director Paul Morris said the second referendum would raise enough money to accelerate work on both transit and trail projects all along the 22-mile Beltline loop.

“We wouldn’t have to do these sequentially as we have been doing,” he said. “This would be the opening of the gate to let us flow smoothly through the work.”

Final project lists are due to be introduced to the city council on June 6, with final votes set for June 20.
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Old 05-19-2016, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,417 posts, read 2,761,965 times
Reputation: 2174
Quote:
MARTA officials presented $6.1 billion worth of rail and bus system improvements that would be financed through a proposed half-penny sales tax increase. It will be up the council members during the next few weeks to reduce the list to fit the projected $2.5 billion in revenue the tax would raise through 2057.
That's incorrect, right? They just have to cut it down to ~$5 Billion, yeah? I thought that $2.5 Bil. was before federal matching, which means we can plan for that federal matching.


Quote:
Councilman Howard Shook said he didn’t see enough in the plan to address traffic congestion in Buckhead
Well maybe if you'd stayed on the danged streetcar plan, there would be something! As it is, you're getting ART. If there was so much trouble with getting bike lanes in, then I can't see any BRT or dedicated lane light rail up that way any time soon. Maybe if the rest of the network is built out, more people will use the Buckhead and Lenox stations? The heck does he want?


Quote:
and Councilwoman Keisha Lance Bottoms said there’s virtually nothing in the plan for Southwest Atlanta.
Except 2 ART routes, a bit of the BeltLine, a new transit center, a new circulator route, pedestrian improvements, and even an option with light rail. What more does she want?


Ugh. I swear, if these people kill this opportunity for the city...
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Old 05-19-2016, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia
4,986 posts, read 4,023,914 times
Reputation: 2790
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Ugh. I swear, if these people kill this opportunity for the city...
Council members tend to talk more critically of proposals than their voting records would indicate, IMO.
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Old 05-19-2016, 03:47 PM
 
9,952 posts, read 6,957,017 times
Reputation: 3032
Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
That's incorrect, right? They just have to cut it down to ~$5 Billion, yeah? I thought that $2.5 Bil. was before federal matching, which means we can plan for that federal matching.
I was thinking that too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Well maybe if you'd stayed on the danged streetcar plan, there would be something! As it is, you're getting ART. If there was so much trouble with getting bike lanes in, then I can't see any BRT or dedicated lane light rail up that way any time soon. Maybe if the rest of the network is built out, more people will use the Buckhead and Lenox stations? The heck does he want?
Yeah, didn't he push to have the LRT removed from the Beltline / Streetcar System plan? You made the bed, now you don't want to sleep in it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
Except 2 ART routes, a bit of the BeltLine, a new transit center, a new circulator route, pedestrian improvements, and even an option with light rail. What more does she want?


Ugh. I swear, if these people kill this opportunity for the city...
Agreed. SW Atlanta is probably getting more than any other quadrant of the city. More than the north side.

I am hopeful Reed won't let this turn into nothing but pet projects for council districts. Sounding like they are seriously considering knocking out all of the Beltline.
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