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I have seen those movies but could you explain this reference a little further, equinox?
In both movies, the schools are really bad. Kids running wild, very little teaching, etc. People outside of Drew think that all the kids have creased, starched, uniforms with pleaded skirts or bow ties walking in single file lines with Mozart playing in the background. Ironically, that is how people inside Drew view Jackson. Many outside of King middle school think that it is a crazy environment with fights every day and drugs sold in the bathroom and no teaching going on. However, after visiting both schools (Drew and King... And Jackson), Drew Charter Middle School seemed to have the most visible issues with student behavior, fights, etc. Like I mentioned earlier, several teachers quit Drew this year due to the conditions and we're just three weeks in. It's interesting how a school's reputation can make it more or less desirable. Even when the inside may not be what we think. I thought Drew was going to slowly improve, but now I question whether that can or will happen at a greater rate than the traditional public middle and high school.
I wonder what happens when a charter school becomes undesirable...
In both movies, the schools are really bad. Kids running wild, very little teaching, etc. People outside of Drew think that all the kids have creased, starched, uniforms with pleaded skirts or bow ties walking in single file lines with Mozart playing in the background. Ironically, that is how people inside Drew view Jackson. Many outside of King middle school think that it is a crazy environment with fights every day and drugs sold in the bathroom and no teaching going on. However, after visiting both schools (Drew and King... And Jackson), Drew Charter Middle School seemed to have the most visible issues with student behavior, fights, etc. Like I mentioned earlier, several teachers quit Drew this year due to the conditions and we're just three weeks in. It's interesting how a school's reputation can make it more or less desirable. Even when the inside may not be what we think. I thought Drew was going to slowly improve, but now I question whether that can or will happen at a greater rate than the traditional public middle and high school.
I wonder what happens when a charter school becomes undesirable...
This is 100% correct. I have so many friends and neighbors who just assume Drew is better than King and Jackson because it's a charter school, but have never stepped foot in the building to observe. They constantly tell me how they are fearful of King MS, because they have a view that is is exactly how equinox described it.
Very upsetting news. One of the great things east lake and Kirkwood have going for them as tthey gentrify is that the schools slowly become better. Charters are supposed to be merit based and thus be even better than the schools in their cluster. If drew intends to keep such a large percentage of its student body in the poverty level, then as the neighborhoods around it get wealthier other schools will have lower poverty rates. Unfortunately poverty tends to correlate with behavior issues and non caring parents, as well as crime. If toomers population becomes only 10-20% low income while drew is at 65%, no upper income parents will want to send their kids to drew and the program will tank.
Not sure on if the perception will eventually be that Jackson is "better" than Drew.
I will note that I also find that many people believe that just because a school is a charter school that means it is automatically "better" when in most cases it is not. Also that people believe that charters shut out the "bad" kids an that absolutely is not the case either.
That said, I know families who have children at Drew who have been there since elementary and are now in the middle school years. They love the school. Some of the parents I know are not "low income" and they moved to Villages of East Lake in particular for access to the school.
I think that charters and public schools have many similarities and many differences. The contrasts being that charters don't have as much beaurocracy ruling over them and so if they see patterns that are diminishing quality or if they have students that are having excessive issues, in most cases they can take immediate steps to improve the situation. Similarities of charters with public schools is that both serve families who may have children with behavioral or developmental problems and from what I know of Drew, I feel that they are more dedicated to serving those children than many other charter schools so that may be why some think the kids who go there are "bad." My oldest child went to a charter school in APS district - Kindezi and they were an excellent school but also were committed to serving more kids from lower income groups and who had some behavioral issues and I don't think that that is a bad thing or that it makes a school "bad" to have some children who misbehave at times. The words regarding teachers quitting at Drew IMO shows a lack of teacher preparation on the part of the school. I feel the same way for public schools who have teachers who do not know how to control a classroom due to IMO many of them just having a lack of caring authority and being too afraid of kids from a lower socio-economic background. Teaching, no matter if it is public or charter requires the instructor to have a particular attitude IMO about the students they are serving. Kids will take advantage of the weakness of a teacher with "bad" behavior in the classroom.
All this to say, I do feel that Drew will be a desirable school for the foreseeable future based first on the fact that it is a good performing school on paper and the fact that people see charters positively. I do think it is a good thing for them to focus on serving more low income students who may need the more intense instruction they provide (longer school day, Saturday school, etc.) especially those who are behind academically.
I also feel it is great if more of the gentrifying families support the regular public schools more and increase their reputations. Having strong public schools is a great asset to a neighborhood and the city at-large.
Very upsetting news. One of the great things east lake and Kirkwood have going for them as tthey gentrify is that the schools slowly become better. Charters are supposed to be merit based and thus be even better than the schools in their cluster. If drew intends to keep such a large percentage of its student body in the poverty level, then as the neighborhoods around it get wealthier other schools will have lower poverty rates. Unfortunately poverty tends to correlate with behavior issues and non caring parents, as well as crime. If toomers population becomes only 10-20% low income while drew is at 65%, no upper income parents will want to send their kids to drew and the program will tank.
What do you mean charters are supposed to be merit-based? In Drew's case the first tier is need-based, if you live in subsidized housing. The remaining spots are filled by lottery. And Drew's whole shtick is that it's a philanthropic school that serves the poor kids of 30317.
Drew did fine test-score wise when it's FRL was at 65% and higher, which was not that long ago.
All this to say, I do feel that Drew will be a desirable school for the foreseeable future based first on the fact that it is a good performing school on paper and the fact that people see charters positively. I do think it is a good thing for them to focus on serving more low income students who may need the more intense instruction they provide (longer school day, Saturday school, etc.) especially those who are behind academically.
I think how wealthy people view charters depends on what kind of charter it is. If it's a crunchy progressive charter like ANCS or Museum School, they love it, but they would hate Kindezi or KIPP. I don't know where Drew falls on the spectrum, but i assume it's somewhere in the middle.
In both movies, the schools are really bad. Kids running wild, very little teaching, etc. People outside of Drew think that all the kids have creased, starched, uniforms with pleaded skirts or bow ties walking in single file lines with Mozart playing in the background. Ironically, that is how people inside Drew view Jackson. Many outside of King middle school think that it is a crazy environment with fights every day and drugs sold in the bathroom and no teaching going on. However, after visiting both schools (Drew and King... And Jackson), Drew Charter Middle School seemed to have the most visible issues with student behavior, fights, etc. Like I mentioned earlier, several teachers quit Drew this year due to the conditions and we're just three weeks in. It's interesting how a school's reputation can make it more or less desirable. Even when the inside may not be what we think. I thought Drew was going to slowly improve, but now I question whether that can or will happen at a greater rate than the traditional public middle and high school.
I wonder what happens when a charter school becomes undesirable...
Thanks, equinox, I appreciate the additional context.
I think how wealthy people view charters depends on what kind of charter it is. If it's a crunchy progressive charter like ANCS or Museum School, they love it, but they would hate Kindezi or KIPP. I don't know where Drew falls on the spectrum, but i assume it's somewhere in the middle.
Just wanted to mention that you may not know a lot about Kindezi since it is a smaller school. There are actually quite a few families who are not low income at that school. IMO it is a better school than Drew due to the low class sizes and family environment (they only have 6-8 kids per class in all grades). I think most people don't know much about Kindezi at all and honestly, when we were a family there, I was happy about that. However, they always have a wait list as well similar to all the higher performing charters. ETA - Kindezi is also a "crunchy, progressive" charter.
KIPP IMO is a bit militaristic but they serve a very wide population of students. I also know quite a few families who send their kids to various KIPP schools. I considered sending my kid to KIPP WAYS but decided on Kindezi because it was a school that was much more less stressful IMO yet had a lot of academic expectations. My kid loved the school and it is one of the only things I miss about Atlanta since I moved away. It is a very unique, private school type of environment IMO.
Very upsetting news. One of the great things east lake and Kirkwood have going for them as tthey gentrify is that the schools slowly become better. Charters are supposed to be merit based and thus be even better than the schools in their cluster. If drew intends to keep such a large percentage of its student body in the poverty level, then as the neighborhoods around it get wealthier other schools will have lower poverty rates. Unfortunately poverty tends to correlate with behavior issues and non caring parents, as well as crime. If toomers population becomes only 10-20% low income while drew is at 65%, no upper income parents will want to send their kids to drew and the program will tank.
On this, I'll note that charters are actually usually for low income students to receive a higher quality education versus what they can receive in the traditional public school setting.
So in this regard, Drew is going back to its core components. The success that many flaunt about Drew happened with a majority of poverty stricken students. Just because a student comes from a poor family doesn't mean they can't learn and that is the objective of schools like Drew, the KIPP schools and even Kindezi. All of these schools prove that lower income, minority children can succeed on high stakes testing especially and that they can indeed learn at a higher level with more support versus what public schools provide. Most notably the longer school hours and Saturday school, which Drew does provide/offer.
Going back to being majority low income will not IMO drastically impact Drew's results on testing or reputation since it originally was a school that primarily served public housing children. However, I do think the reporting of the fact that more low income students attend will be off putting for families who are afraid of their kids attending schools with poor students. And with that, those higher income families will choose to go to the public schools as a result. But Drew has students outside of the East Lake area and it will always draw students from across Atlanta based on its reputation as a high performing charter.
I think how wealthy people view charters depends on what kind of charter it is. If it's a crunchy progressive charter like ANCS or Museum School, they love it, but they would hate Kindezi or KIPP. I don't know where Drew falls on the spectrum, but i assume it's somewhere in the middle.
I think that has to do with the racial makeup of the student population.
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