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Old 09-20-2016, 10:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
HERE IS ONE: Last year, at the Fayette County HS marching band contest (Lafayette Marching Classic, one of the oldest in the state and now in its 35th year) I sat around a bunch of Kennesaw Mountain band parents. When the KMHS band came onto the field, I was *shocked* by how small (in numbers) the band had become. As people who follow HS marching band know, Cobb County is famous nationwide for its high school music programs, and in recent years both KMHS and Harrison had stolen most of the thunder and national recognition away from Lassiter (BOA etc).

ANYWAYS ... these Kennesaw Mountain parents told me that the demographics at the school were changing rapidly and the band program reflected that. Basically it had gone from majoriity white and affluent to majority minority with a high FRL rate in a shockingly short period of time and the band program was in crisis. Friends who live in the Harrison district (3 miles down the road) confirmed this.

Still, it pales to what happened to McEachern with the opening of Hillgrove -- truly the most erroneous redistricting in the history of Cobb County schools IMO.

Thoughts?
I'm glad you know about the erroneous redistricting of McEachern. We can save that for another thread...or later in this one. Truly horrible.


Yes, I have thoughts/commentary.

Now, nothing compares to what happened with Hillgrove and McEachern, but there are two major things that affected KMHS.

1. The opening of Hillgrove High.
2. The opening of Allatoona High.


#1
A lot people don't realize this now, but Hillgrove also pulled majorly from Kennesaw Mountain High. When the Hillgrove district was finally formed, it was roughly 64% from McEachern, 35% from Kennesaw Mountain, and only 1% from Harrison. From the looks of the zoning map now, people would not guess this. The initial Kennesaw Mountain district basically made a backwards C around the Harrison district and big chunk of its upper-middle class white areas were south of Dallas Hwy/120. (The formation of KMHS's district was also political, but we can also get into that in another thread). Hillgrove's cut into KMHS caused a drop in the white population and KMHS begin to be centered more around Pine Mountain Middle as its core feeder. Now, it also needs to be known that Lovinggood Middle opened at the same time as Hillgrove and its opening had an even more drastic affect on Pine Mountain Middle and Smitha Middle (in comparison to Hillgrove's on KMHS).

#2
Allatoona High is located further northwest than Kennesaw Mountain and the area is whiter overall. Moreover, Allatoona's zone was formed from about 60% KMHS, 30% Harrison, and 10% North Cobb. So, Allatoona pulled even more white people from KMHS. Currently, KMHS mainly feeds from Pine Mountain Middle (majorly changed due to Lovinggood Middle) and receives about 33% of the feed from McClure (upper-middle class white).


Why does it continue to change rapidly? The snowball effect. White families are now a little less inclined to move into KMHS in comparison to Harrison. And there is growing Latino population centered around Hayes Elementary.


That's it in a nutshell.




For the record, KMHS is a high-performing school. It is still an upper-middle class district overall, and benefits from a strong science-oriented magnet. Moreover, it often beats Harrison on the SAT (and other assessment) rankings.
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
The upcoming $1 billion construction plan also includes a new high school in the Norcross / Meadowcreek area, per published reports
I'm traveling so this will be short.

They are theme schools, like GMST.

One is suppose to be technology based and the other health/medical based.

The tech is going in Norcross.

However I'm not including those as relievers, because they aren't. Anyone can apply county-wide and there will be no new clusters or distracting for them.
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Lake Spivey, Georgia
1,990 posts, read 1,733,171 times
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Here is a question. If people were really against diverse student bodies in Gwinnett Schools, where exactly would they flee to. Way more expensive neighboring North Fulton? If they felt negative about Gwinnett demographics, they certainly will not be seeking neighboring South Hall (large Hispanic community) or Dekalb (overwhelmingly a hodgepodge of diverse ethnic groups). Walton County/ Loganville is A LOT further out. Perhaps this IS the end game for White flight. People run out of places to run to (at least affordable places with decent school systems) and STAY instead of keep running. Such a realization could revolutionize Metro Atlanta. I see a similar pattern in the Southeast suburbs: once south and east of Henry County, proximity to work places such as the airport and Atlanta and school district quality (Newton/ Butts counties) is seriously curtailed.
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,728 posts, read 19,406,875 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Here is a question. If people were really against diverse student bodies in Gwinnett Schools, where exactly would they flee to. Way more expensive neighboring North Fulton? If they felt negative about Gwinnett demographics, they certainly will not be seeking neighboring South Hall (large Hispanic community) or Dekalb (overwhelmingly a hodgepodge of diverse ethnic groups). Walton County/ Loganville is A LOT further out. Perhaps this IS the end game for White flight. People run out of places to run to (at least affordable places with decent school systems) and STAY instead of keep running. Such a realization could revolutionize Metro Atlanta. I see a similar pattern in the Southeast suburbs: once south and east of Henry County, proximity to work places such as the airport and Atlanta and school district quality (Newton/ Butts counties) is seriously curtailed.
Cherokee County
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Lake Spivey, Georgia
1,990 posts, read 1,733,171 times
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Being northwest instead of northeast, I have always thought as Cherokee as where Cobb folks would go to (I have been told that Paulding County has similar access and school issues that Butts and Newton have, but I do not know that for a fact since I reside in the polar opposite side of the Metro from the northwest suburbs.) I do feel like Coweta fulfills that same niche for the southwest suburbs.
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Old 09-21-2016, 11:05 AM
 
30,554 posts, read 29,000,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Here is a question. If people were really against diverse student bodies in Gwinnett Schools, where exactly would they flee to. Way more expensive neighboring North Fulton? If they felt negative about Gwinnett demographics, they certainly will not be seeking neighboring South Hall (large Hispanic community) or Dekalb (overwhelmingly a hodgepodge of diverse ethnic groups). Walton County/ Loganville is A LOT further out. Perhaps this IS the end game for White flight. People run out of places to run to (at least affordable places with decent school systems) and STAY instead of keep running. Such a realization could revolutionize Metro Atlanta. I see a similar pattern in the Southeast suburbs: once south and east of Henry County, proximity to work places such as the airport and Atlanta and school district quality (Newton/ Butts counties) is seriously curtailed.
That's a great point, Clayton white guy. How far and where are they going to run? Seems like it would make more sense to stay put and work to make things better for all.
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Old 09-21-2016, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,708 posts, read 18,541,909 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Here is a question. If people were really against diverse student bodies in Gwinnett Schools, where exactly would they flee to. Way more expensive neighboring North Fulton? If they felt negative about Gwinnett demographics, they certainly will not be seeking neighboring South Hall (large Hispanic community) or Dekalb (overwhelmingly a hodgepodge of diverse ethnic groups). Walton County/ Loganville is A LOT further out. Perhaps this IS the end game for White flight. People run out of places to run to (at least affordable places with decent school systems) and STAY instead of keep running. Such a realization could revolutionize Metro Atlanta. I see a similar pattern in the Southeast suburbs: once south and east of Henry County, proximity to work places such as the airport and Atlanta and school district quality (Newton/ Butts counties) is seriously curtailed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Being northwest instead of northeast, I have always thought as Cherokee as where Cobb folks would go to (I have been told that Paulding County has similar access and school issues that Butts and Newton have, but I do not know that for a fact since I reside in the polar opposite side of the Metro from the northwest suburbs.) I do feel like Coweta fulfills that same niche for the southwest suburbs.
We have been saying this in Fayette County for years. Where are people going to go to? Griffin-Spadling? No. Meriwhether? Hell no! The schools in both those communities are simply not an option. But you can get lots of cheap land down in Meriwhether, so to people whose main concern is being crowded out by continued suburbanization and not schools (mostly older empty nesters and such) that's an option.

But a quick look at census data shows that there has been no huge land grab / population rush south into Meriwhether. Instead it has been a trickle. I know some (very few) Fayette families that have moved to Pike and Lamar counties, but again the growth there has not been what I'd call the result of "white flight" from the inner ring, but rather the desire for more elbow room. Also, the schools in Griffin are remarkably terrible and a good many Spalding County white families have relocated to Pike and Lamar for that reason, since those counties are in effect suburbs of Griffin (before that whole region was swallowed up by Metro Atlanta).

Generations of Fayette County young people (so many from my era I've lost count) ended up settling in Coweta because of lower housing costs. Several, once they had the financial means to do so, have moved back into Fayette for the schools. But there has been no "white flight" out of Fayette to speak of. Even Dix Leon in the far north end of the county, across from the Holyfield etstate, remains about half white, as does the entire North Fayette voting district (which is why the efforts to carve out a majority-minority district in Fayette proved so controversial).

Further, when it comes to Fayetteville proper and the Fayette County HS attendance zone specifically, there has not been a "mass exodus" of whites like some people think or imply. Instead, the redistricting for Whitewater High about a decade ago created that impression. If Whitewater High had never opened, Fayette County High today would have nearly the same demographics as it did in 2004 -- around 65 percent white.

IN A NUTSHELL: The situation (as I see it) is not white families moving OUT of Fayette or Gwinnett, but rather more minority families moving in. Indeed, I don't think the actual number of whites in Fayette or Gwinnett has ever declined, just the percentages.

Last edited by Newsboy; 09-21-2016 at 02:06 PM..
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Old 09-21-2016, 03:05 PM
 
7,293 posts, read 6,672,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Here is a question. If people were really against diverse student bodies in Gwinnett Schools, where exactly would they flee to. Way more expensive neighboring North Fulton? If they felt negative about Gwinnett demographics, they certainly will not be seeking neighboring South Hall (large Hispanic community) or Dekalb (overwhelmingly a hodgepodge of diverse ethnic groups). Walton County/ Loganville is A LOT further out. Perhaps this IS the end game for White flight. People run out of places to run to (at least affordable places with decent school systems) and STAY instead of keep running. Such a realization could revolutionize Metro Atlanta. I see a similar pattern in the Southeast suburbs: once south and east of Henry County, proximity to work places such as the airport and Atlanta and school district quality (Newton/ Butts counties) is seriously curtailed.
That is an excellent question asking where whites would flee to from Gwinnett to be in less-diverse, more homogenous predominantly white areas.

That is also an excellent point that whites who are trying to get away from increasing diversity in heavily populated counties like Gwinnett may be running out of places to run to.

Though there does seem to be some evidence that whites seeking to be in less-diverse areas have fled Gwinnett (or just simply passed over Gwinnett) for farther out areas like North and West Forsyth County, Dawson County, Jackson County, Walton County, parts of Barrow County, Oconee County and even areas as far away as rural Northeast Georgia, the North Georgia Mountains and the rural parts of surrounding states like Tennessee and North Carolina.

When a county or area goes through the massive demographic and developmental changes that a county like Gwinnett has gone through (from being an overwhelmingly predominantly white sparsely populated mostly rural exurban county to being an increasingly heavily populated ultra-diverse urban county), there are going to be long-time residents who will leave (or "flee") to less-diverse, less-populated areas farther out.

The 10% decline in the white population in Gwinnett from its peak in 2000 reflects that there have been many white residents who have left the county.

That 10% decline in the white population from its peak in 2000 also reflects that there are not enough white newcomers moving into Gwinnett to replace the white residents who either move away or pass away.

The decline in the white population seems to be aiding in an acceleration of the continuing diversification of Gwinnett County.

The decline of the white student population down to 25% of the total students enrolled in the Gwinnett County Public Schools system seems to reflect those accelerating (and stunning) demographic changes in a Gwinnett County where whites made up 96% of the population 36 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Being northwest instead of northeast, I have always thought as Cherokee as where Cobb folks would go to (I have been told that Paulding County has similar access and school issues that Butts and Newton have, but I do not know that for a fact since I reside in the polar opposite side of the Metro from the northwest suburbs.)
Those are good points about Cherokee and Paulding counties being the likely destinations for white flight from Cobb County.

I have a friend who is white who grew up in the South Cobb High School cluster back in the 1950's and '60's when the area was largely rural, exurban and 100% white. My friend actually graduated from the same class as former Georgia Governor Roy Barnes who hails from the Mableton area.

Anyways, whites now make up only about 11% of the student population in the South Cobb cluster (black students are now about 65% of the student population in the South Cobb cluster). My friend now lives with his family in neighboring Paulding County in the South Paulding High School cluster where whites make up 71% of the student population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
I do feel like Coweta fulfills that same niche for the southwest suburbs.
Coweta and Fayette counties and parts of Henry County were originally destinations for whites fleeing from areas with rising minority populations in South Fulton and Clayton counties (...just like South Fulton and Clayton counties were (along with Cobb, DeKalb, North Fulton and Gwinnett counties) once destinations for whites fleeing from areas with rising black populations in the City of Atlanta back in the 1950's, '60's, '70's and '80's).

But generally the rubber band for white flight and exurban growth seems it potentially might be reaching the outer limits for how far it can continue to stretch.
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Old 09-21-2016, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,469 posts, read 4,572,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Here is a question. If people were really against diverse student bodies in Gwinnett Schools, where exactly would they flee to. Way more expensive neighboring North Fulton? If they felt negative about Gwinnett demographics, they certainly will not be seeking neighboring South Hall (large Hispanic community) or Dekalb (overwhelmingly a hodgepodge of diverse ethnic groups). Walton County/ Loganville is A LOT further out. Perhaps this IS the end game for White flight. People run out of places to run to (at least affordable places with decent school systems) and STAY instead of keep running. Such a realization could revolutionize Metro Atlanta. I see a similar pattern in the Southeast suburbs: once south and east of Henry County, proximity to work places such as the airport and Atlanta and school district quality (Newton/ Butts counties) is seriously curtailed.
I know quite a few white families that have "fled" into South Hall, usually around Flowery Branch. The Hispanic population is clustered around East Hall and near the southern end of the city of Gainesville, and the black population is relatively low compared to Gwinnett and the city of Gainesville, so I guess South Hall doesn't seem "too diverse" to those people. Most people won't come out and say that they are fleeing diversity, though.
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Old 09-21-2016, 03:35 PM
 
7,293 posts, read 6,672,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
We have been saying this in Fayette County for years. Where are people going to go to? Griffin-Spadling? No. Meriwhether? Hell no! The schools in both those communities are simply not an option. But you can get lots of cheap land down in Meriwhether, so to people whose main concern is being crowded out by continued suburbanization and not schools (mostly older empty nesters and such) that's an option.

But a quick look at census data shows that there has been no huge land grab / population rush south into Meriwhether. Instead it has been a trickle. I know some (very few) Fayette families that have moved to Pike and Lamar counties, but again the growth there has not been what I'd call the result of "white flight" from the inner ring, but rather the desire for more elbow room. Also, the schools in Griffin are remarkably terrible and a good many Spalding County white families have relocated to Pike and Lamar for that reason, since those counties are in effect suburbs of Griffin (before that whole region was swallowed up by Metro Atlanta).

Generations of Fayette County young people (so many from my era I've lost count) ended up settling in Coweta because of lower housing costs. Several, once they had the financial means to do so, have moved back into Fayette for the schools. But there has been no "white flight" out of Fayette to speak of. Even Dix Leon in the far north end of the county, across from the Holyfield etstate, remains about half white, as does the entire North Fayette voting district (which is why the efforts to carve out a majority-minority district in Fayette proved so controversial).

Further, when it comes to Fayetteville proper and the Fayette County HS attendance zone specifically, there has not been a "mass exodus" of whites like some people think or imply. Instead, the redistricting for Whitewater High about a decade ago created that impression. If Whitewater High had never opened, Fayette County High today would have nearly the same demographics as it did in 2004 -- around 65 percent white.

IN A NUTSHELL: The situation (as I see it) is not white families moving OUT of Fayette or Gwinnett, but rather more minority families moving in. Indeed, I don't think the actual number of whites in Fayette or Gwinnett has ever declined, just the percentages.
Those are excellent points about many whites moving out inner ring suburban areas not necessarily to get away (or "flee") from rising minority populations but for more elbow room (more land, less population and a more exurban/rural lifestyle).

Though, the actual number of non-Hispanic whites in Gwinnett County has declined from a peak population of 394,164 in 2000 down to 354,746 as of 2015, resulting in a decline of about 39,418 white residents in the 15 years between 2000 and 2015.

That 10% decline in Gwinnett's white population during that 15-year span seems to reflect that many white residents have left the county and that not enough white newcomers are moving into the county to replace the white residents that have moved or died and keep the white population in Gwinnett County at an even or expanding rate that is competitive with the county's exploding minority population (which has shot up by about 278% during the same 2000-2015 time frame).
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