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You're correct, I do live along Peachtree Industrial, so I was comparing what I see to the enrollment of Duluth High School, which I am districted for. As far as I know, the apartments near the mall are not districted for Duluth HS.
I recall a few years ago there was a lot of commotion about a redistricting that from what I could gather, forced Duluth High School to take in pretty much all of the apartments of the area and Peachtree Ridge got off pretty much completely unscathed. A lot of people thought it was unfair, and it does seem that Peachtree Ridge is performing better.
One thing about this area is that it is once again growing rapidly. I would imagine that within the next 5-10 years they will have to construct a new school to take the pressure off Duluth/Peachtree Ridge, so who knows what that map will look like once that happens.
The "greater" Gwinnett place area, where there are a good many apartments spread about are actually districted to 7 different school clusters.... at least in some part.
Many apartments near the mall area are districted to Duluth and many others are not.
The boundaries for Duluth include all of Pleasant Hill all the way to I-85, includes the mall, just north of the mall, and goes down Satellite Blvd past Liddel Rd.
So it includes many apartment complexes off of Plesant Hill, Satellite, and Old Norcross.
If you go far enough south on Satellite, Nocross takes over for a couple of the complexes getting closer towards the mall from Nocross.
The controversy on the original borders of Peachtree Ridge is their borders were drawn to not include many of the existing apartment complexes just north of the mall, only the ones closer to Sugarloaf. They re-drew the line to include one more large complex just north of the mall off of Satellite to Peacthree Ridge.
The other fear was Peacthree Ridge was going to take too many of the nicer neighborhoods and Duluth wouldn't stay as balanced. Peacthree Ridge got many newer neighborhoods that were more expensive and the Sugarloaf country club. So there was a lot of concern there wouldn't be a balance maintained and there was also a concern that some really nice high-end areas were trying to be isolated too much.
South of I-85 Meadowcreek, Berkmar, and Discovery really split the load. The districts are clearly gerrymandered, so one school doesn't get the full load of townhomes and apartments in that area.
Of course, the reality is Norcross and Meadowcreek get hit the heaviest, because of places like Graves Rd, Peacthree Corners Circle, Jimmy Carters, etc..
I don't expect there will be a reliever school built for Duluth and Peacthree Ridge. In about 10 years the district borders from Collins Hill and North Gwinnett will be able to shift further south and west again. Once they get past that initial amount of kids in the newer homes and there are more empty nesters.
That is what happened to Parkview years ago. The school has grown and they expanded capacity, but they really shifted the borders to take slithers of Meadowcreek, Berkmar, and Brookwood again and again over time as they grew and the Parkview area got older. When Parkview was younger the boundaries were much smaller, similar to Collins Hill and North Gwinnett compared to their neighboring districts.
I also suspect they are going to make another high school for Norcross first. That will then shift the borders of those two schools further north into Duluth.
They are making new elementary schools for both Nocross and Meadowcreek. That area is getting walloped with kids right now. They are hit very hard and K-12 population is trending up. They just open a new expanded Summermour Middle school, so they will have two larger middle schools and 6 elementary schools easy to split up. Meadowcreek will soon have 7 elementary schools.
Of course none of this is listed on the SPLOST IV package, I just see it as the next logical step/set-up for how GCPS typically operates. If they don't I could see Meadowcreek and Nocross surpassing 4,000 students eventually.
Not a bad post, but I do feel there are some other variables at play as to what makes different locations different and your brushing on them very well talking about quality-of-life.
Overall, I don't think there is a single magic tipping point number, but I do think overall of the quality of area will play a roll in affecting things (ie. if an area has low desirability and you become a minority and feel more out of place, you might not care to stay as much; Inversely, if an area has a good commute and schools, and stable home prices, the fact that you are becoming a minority and might feel more out of place might not be as big of a deal because your needs are still being met).
One thing about many of the schools bordering I-85, especially to the south, is that is where most of the apartments, townhomes, and cheaper single family homes are. The schools do not perform as well, either... generally speaking.
One issue Meadowcreek has had in the past (and rapidly growing this is impacting Berkmar) is the influx of Hispanics into the area has really harmed performance schools, except much of it isn't necessarily from lack of students working hard, family involvement, student potential, etc... There is actually a language barrier for some students at play. It is just enough that it is slowing down many of the classes overall to address it.
The other issue is when the foreign born population is so high, kids haven't always heard stories regarding local and U.S. history and cultures growing up (at least not in the same way). So in history or literature classes a school with a black and/or white population might be able to speed over some topics and talk about them more in detail, but when you have a foreign born population you might be explaining them something for the first time and it takes longer learn just being a new piece of information.
Many of transfers from Meadowcreek to Parkview have had problems a long this line. It can heavily impact a subject like math, where some of the terms are new to most students and it can be very hard to explain pre-calc subjects or other advanced topics when there is even a small language barrier.
Lastly, I just wanted to put this out there as well. I was hesitant to say this in a public forum where people who don't see this first hand are looking for normal popular rhetorical arguments. Truth be told most Hispanics -are- learning English, at least that is what I have experienced in the Lilburn area. It is a huge economic impact for them if they don't and they feel that. The problem I'm trying to spot out is there are many new arrivals. The Foreign born % is really high. There is a learning process for many kids as they adjust to life here. I go to a fast food restaurant or a check out line in a grocery store in Lilburn along 29 and increasingly those working are Hispanic and they are young (high school through mid-20s). Most of them speak incredibly good English and most with an American accent. So while I'm trying to spot out a real problem, I don't want things misconstrued to anyone who might believe "... and none of these people learn English or want to..." There is a difference.
Anyways point being.... If there is a "tipping point" I see why it happened at Meadowcreek sooner. I feel there were other things holding it back. Academic performance did suffer. I don't blame GCPS. I think the school has done a great job given their circumstance, but there enough options nearby where I can side-step those problems. It is actually a testament to Meadowcreek that the CCRIP is 61.9 in a way, but I won't be living there.
The schools bordering this area all have quality of life issues to encourage those to stay. Norcross has Peachtree Corners, easily the richest part of Gwinnett and often overlooked. Duluth has school that is still sometimes ranked, has many high-end areas and nice single family homes... especially to the west. The schools south (parkview/Brookwood) are in an are where home prices jump, there are few apartments, townhomes, and other cheaper housing in general. One thing I have noticed is even when Hispanics move into Parkview, they are the ones more established and paying more the house. Some problems come up, but less often. Meadowcreek does not get that benefit. Now the bad thing is anecdotally and locally people talk about Meadowcreek like it is the plague. It is losing a perception battle among many whites (and increasingly Asians and Blacks to behonest) that affects is pretty strongly.
Excellent comments as usual, particularly about how many Hispanics are either learning English or intensely desire to learn English and how they often fully realize the economic impact of learning and knowing English. This was my experience with the Hispanic community as well during the time that I lived in the Norcross area.
The adult ESOL (English as a Second Language) classes I witnessed were often very heavily attended at Norcross High School and were often treated as major events for those involved who often dressed up as if they were going for a night out on the town.
In regards to your comments on why the Meadowcreek cluster seems to be the cluster that struggles the most academically in the county....As has been touched on before in these threads, one of the major reasons why so many transient residents seem to have flooded into the Meadowcreek cluster (as well as the Berkmar cluster and parts of the Norcross and Duluth clusters) seems to be because of the abundant amount of affordable housing stock there (including affordable detached single-family homes, attached townhomes and apartments).
...Which is something that should be expected in a popular suburb of a major metropolitan area of much international visibility like Atlanta...If you build housing, people are going to live in it....Like the old axiom "build it and they will come"....And in Gwinnett and Metro Atlanta, the powers that be seemingly built as much as they could (back when the Atlanta metro was often accused of overbuilding during the boom times of the '80's and '90's and into the 2000's) and the people came to live in it from all over the U.S. and the world.
B2R - As usual good insights and information. Where in your best judgment do you see all this going over the next 10 years or so, particularly in regard to the North Gwinnett areas?
Well there are some numbers that arjay put up in another post that shows the demographic breakdown of the entire GCPS system as being 25% white and 75% minority....Which is where the county as a whole will be headed in the next 10 years or so, particularly with Gwinnett County's population already being 39.6% white and 60.4% minority as of 2015.
Gwinnett County will continue to trend towards being an increasingly supermajority-minority county where whites will make up only 30% and/or less of the population in coming years and decades.
In about 15 years or so, Gwinnett will likely be a supermajority-minority county (75-80% minority, about 20-25% white, maybe less) of well over 1 million residents.
Also (unless the Republican Party finds a way to make significant inroads with minority voters), Gwinnett will probably be a very heavily Democratic county that affects the outcome of statewide elections because of its large dominant electorate.
The current makeup of the Gwinnett County BoC (Board of Commissioners) is something that should be really concerning to Republicans (who currently hold all five seats on the Gwinnett BoC and dominate the county's political scene) because of the small size of the board (only five seats) for a county of Gwinnett's large population (about 900,000 residents).
By comparison, Fairfax County, Virginia (a heavily-populated dominant suburb of over 1.1 million residents outside of Washington D.C. that compares somewhat favorably to Atlanta suburban counties like Gwinnett, Cobb and North Fulton) has 10 members.
Like Gwinnett and other outer-suburban/exurban counties, Fairfax County, Virginia was once a Republican stronghold. But as Fairfax County, Virginia rapidly grew, urbanized and diversified, it became a Democratic stronghold that plays a major role in determining the outcome of statewide elections.
Republicans may currently favor the small size of the Gwinnett BoC because they hold all five of the seats on the board, but with Gwinnett's demographics trending increasingly heavily in favor of the Democrats, it is not out of the realm of possibility that Republicans could probably find themselves locked out of Gwinnett County government and the Gwinnett County political scene in the not-too-distant future.
That small five-seat board (a board that seems to be geared towards governing the much more sparsely populated outer-suburban/exurban Gwinnett County of 30-40 years ago) will likely work to help aid Democratic Party ascendancy within Gwinnett County's political scene over the next 15 years or so.
Republicans would do well to expand the size of the Gwinnett BoC beyond its current five-seat structure so that they retain a voice (and meaningful representation) in Gwinnett County government and politics when the county's heavily minority demographic makeup starts asserting itself at the polls increasingly heavily towards Democrats over the next 15 years or so.
Another important issue (the schools) raises the question of rather or not the Gwinnett County Public School system will be able continue to function at a high level as the governing regime of the system changes with the continuing massive demographic and political changes of Gwinnett County.
Despite the complaints about the current all-white Gwinnett County Board of Education not reflecting the current demographics of the county, GCPS has enjoyed an exceptionally high level of relative stability during a time of massive change for Gwinnett County because of a strong and stable school board and good leadership.
As far as the northern end of the county...The white student populations in the anchor high schools in the Mill Creek and North Gwinnett clusters has fallen to 57% and 56%, respectively, so one can likely expect those two clusters to follow the rest of the GCPS clusters in becoming majority-minority as well.
One can also probably expect the quality of education in the Mill Creek and North Gwinnett clusters to remain at a high level for the foreseeable future because of the large pockets of affluent housing in those clusters (...North Gwinnett High School is currently one of the top-ranked high schools in the State of Georgia while Mill Creek High School is highly-ranked but sometimes struggles with the very large size of its student body (nearly 4,000 students)).
Well there are some numbers that arjay put up in another post that shows the demographic breakdown of the entire GCPS system as being 25% white and 75% minority....Which is where the county as a whole will be headed in the next 10 years or so, particularly with Gwinnett County's population already being 39.6% white and 60.4% minority as of 2015.
Gwinnett County will continue to trend towards being an increasingly supermajority-minority county where whites will make up only 30% and/or less of the population in coming years and decades.
In about 15 years or so, Gwinnett will likely be a supermajority-minority county (75-80% minority, about 20-25% white, maybe less) of well over 1 million residents.
Also (unless the Republican Party finds a way to make significant inroads with minority voters), Gwinnett will probably be a very heavily Democratic county that affects the outcome of statewide elections because of its large dominant electorate.
The current makeup of the Gwinnett County BoC (Board of Commissioners) is something that should be really concerning to Republicans (who currently hold all five seats on the Gwinnett BoC and dominate the county's political scene) because of the small size of the board (only five seats) for a county of Gwinnett's large population (about 900,000 residents).
By comparison, Fairfax County, Virginia (a heavily-populated dominant suburb of over 1.1 million residents outside of Washington D.C. that compares somewhat favorably to Atlanta suburban counties like Gwinnett, Cobb and North Fulton) has 10 members.
Like Gwinnett and other outer-suburban/exurban counties, Fairfax County, Virginia was once a Republican stronghold. But as Fairfax County, Virginia rapidly grew, urbanized and diversified, it became a Democratic stronghold that plays a major role in determining the outcome of statewide elections.
Republicans may currently favor the small size of the Gwinnett BoC because they hold all five of the seats on the board, but with Gwinnett's demographics trending increasingly heavily in favor of the Democrats, it is not out of the realm of possibility that Republicans could probably find themselves locked out of Gwinnett County government and the Gwinnett County political scene in the not-too-distant future.
That small five-seat board (a board that seems to be geared towards governing the much more sparsely populated outer-suburban/exurban Gwinnett County of 30-40 years ago) will likely work to help aid Democratic Party ascendancy within Gwinnett County's political scene over the next 15 years or so.
Republicans would do well to expand the size of the Gwinnett BoC beyond its current five-seat structure so that they retain a voice (and meaningful representation) in Gwinnett County government and politics when the county's heavily minority demographic makeup starts asserting itself at the polls increasingly heavily towards Democrats over the next 15 years or so.
Another important issue (the schools) raises the question of rather or not the Gwinnett County Public School system will be able continue to function at a high level as the governing regime of the system changes with the continuing massive demographic and political changes of Gwinnett County.
Despite the complaints about the current all-white Gwinnett County Board of Education not reflecting the current demographics of the county, GCPS has enjoyed an exceptionally high level of relative stability during a time of massive change for Gwinnett County because of a strong and stable school board and good leadership.
As far as the northern end of the county...The white student populations in the anchor high schools in the Mill Creek and North Gwinnett clusters has fallen to 57% and 56%, respectively, so one can likely expect those two clusters to follow the rest of the GCPS clusters in becoming majority-minority as well.
One can also probably expect the quality of education in the Mill Creek and North Gwinnett clusters to remain at a high level for the foreseeable future because of the large pockets of affluent housing in those clusters (...North Gwinnett High School is currently one of the top-ranked high schools in the State of Georgia while Mill Creek High School is highly-ranked but sometimes struggles with the very large size of its student body (nearly 4,000 students)).
Am I still required to add commentary to Cobb County?
I am so swamped at work...
A better way...
Does anyone have any questions about the Cobb County chart, schools and demographics? Please submit and I can give targeted answers...
HERE IS ONE: Last year, at the Fayette County HS marching band contest (Lafayette Marching Classic, one of the oldest in the state and now in its 35th year) I sat around a bunch of Kennesaw Mountain band parents. When the KMHS band came onto the field, I was *shocked* by how small (in numbers) the band had become. As people who follow HS marching band know, Cobb County is famous nationwide for its high school music programs, and in recent years both KMHS and Harrison had stolen most of the thunder and national recognition away from Lassiter (BOA etc).
ANYWAYS ... these Kennesaw Mountain parents told me that the demographics at the school were changing rapidly and the band program reflected that. Basically it had gone from majoriity white and affluent to majority minority with a high FRL rate in a shockingly short period of time and the band program was in crisis. Friends who live in the Harrison district (3 miles down the road) confirmed this.
Still, it pales to what happened to McEachern with the opening of Hillgrove -- truly the most erroneous redistricting in the history of Cobb County schools IMO.
Thoughts?
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