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Old 09-16-2016, 11:10 AM
 
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I'm curious as to how Gwinnett county went from being almost entirely white to 56% non white in 20 years. Even counties in areas that experience white flight don't always change over this quickly. Last I checked Gwinnett was one of the most diverse counties in the nation, why did so many Hispanics and Asians move to Gwinnett as opposed to Cobb, Fulton or Dekalb counties?

Last edited by stealthfox94; 09-16-2016 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 09-16-2016, 12:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthfox94 View Post
I'm curious as to how Gwinnett county went from being almost entirely white to 56% non white in 20 years. Even counties in areas that are experience white flight don't always change over this quickly. Last I checked Gwinnett was one of the most diverse counties in the nation, why did so many Hispanics and Asians move to Gwinnett as opposed to Cobb, Fulton or Dekalb counties?
Moderate cost of living, safe county, and the fact that it's proximate to the original immigrant hotspots along Buford Highway. Once an immigrant family makes enough money and is established enough to move out of the area, they still want to remain semi-close to the community (in contrast to say Fayette County) but want a nice, safe place to raise their kids.

Really I see a crescent of immigrant-heavy suburbs going from roughly Lilburn to Roswell, and that just happens to mainly fall in Gwinnett.

Also your post doesn't necessarily imply it, but I wouldn't call what happened in Gwinnett white flight.
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Old 09-16-2016, 12:14 PM
 
96 posts, read 113,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
Moderate cost of living, safe county, and the fact that it's proximate to the original immigrant hotspots along Buford Highway. Once an immigrant family makes enough money and is established enough to move out of the area, they still want to remain semi-close to the community (in contrast to say Fayette County) but want a nice, safe place to raise their kids.

Really I see a crescent of immigrant-heavy suburbs going from roughly Lilburn to Roswell, and that just happens to mainly fall in Gwinnett.

Also your post doesn't necessarily imply it, but I wouldn't call what happened in Gwinnett white flight.
Oh no I wouldn't either. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Gwinnett is economically a successful place, but it is also mixed-economy at the same time.

Between Gwinnett and the Northlake/I/85 north corridor in Dekalb there is over 40 million square feet of office space and it is the largest industrial submarket in the region.

So part of what drives the growth is people are following jobs. I also tend to think many of these ethnic cultures end up in the area, because the group as a whole has many different types of people and if they are to cluster in a given area it needs to be more economically mixed.

North Fulton is a successful economic place by leaps and bounds, but it isn't that diversified. It is almost all high-end office space, which isn't a bad thing for them, but it doesn't leave jobs for everyone.

Cobb is more mixed than North Fulton. it actually has a decent insustrial submarket, but it is quite a bit smaller. That area does trend a bit more white collar..

Industrial sq footage:
Northeast: 179.6 msf (million square feet)
North:29.7 msf
Northwest: 67.8 msf
West: 21.3msf
South: 162.7msf
I-20 east: 46.3 msf
Stone Mountain: 26.9 msf
central Atlanta: 14.6 msf

The point being is Gwinnett stands out in the region as having both a large amount of office space and a large amount of industrial space. Most other parts of town are biased toward one or the other or are sleepy. Example: South (industrial), central (office), North (office), northwest (office/mild industrial), I-20 east and west (pretty sleepy on the jobs front).


Granted, this also leads to an awkward thing for Gwinnett. It is growing in a way where it has a more economically diversified population with different needs and they have to find a way to make that work. It is a little weird to me as a long-time resident in that you use to be able to make a blanket statement about what Gwinnett was or how nice Gwinnett was or wasn't. Now you really pick over the differences across the county much more.

Gwinnett actually has a more dense zoning plan (current, not necessarily past zoning plan). They allow for more townhomes and smaller lot neighborhoods to be built, especially closer to I-85. It is also scattered across a large area along I-85. This will make it more affordable for some.


Beyond that once religious and cultural institutions put down roots, new populations follow them. Ironocally, you could almost call H Mart a cultural institution for Koreans Americans. I met a nice on a flight from Atlanta one day and mentioned he was from Duluth and I asked this very question. The way he put it is Koreans will follow the H Mart. Go into any region and they will look up where the H Marts are and those are the areas they will consider. Of course, I'm sure H Mart is just a proxy for finding where other Koreans are.

Now I wouldn't rule out Dekalb, at least not all of it. For some cultures the first place they put down roots was along Buford highway. North Dekalb shares the same traits Gwinnett does. That growth grew outward from that corridor in Dekalb and then exploded.

Lastly, in just over 2 decades Gwinnett has more than doubled in population. This is partly why the percentages have changed so much. The difference is who is in the population of newcomers during that time period. If Gwinnett was previously built out and the population only increased by a moderate amount, it would take far longer for the existing population to turnover. So much of the fast changes can be attributed to fast growth and a change of what populations are growing in the region at the same time.

It is also important to note that there is a large spike in immigration into our country right now from a variety of cultures. This is especially true for Koreans. They weren't that present across the country or in our region, but they are moving in droves now. Gwinnett has had a faster rate of growth during the period. Had Cobb seen its major wave of growth 10-15 years later, then it might have looked a bit more like Gwinnett does.

Anyways sorry for the long answer. I think many of these things encourage/attribute this.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:34 PM
 
8,957 posts, read 11,462,987 times
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Don't know if this really contributed, but I had a friend who used to have clients in Gainesville and he said the poultry industry there is pretty much supported entirely by Hispanic workers. He theorized that living in Gwinnett county gives them relatively easy access to jobs up there.

I have no idea why Koreans decided Gwinnett county is where they would settle.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
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Unlike immigration in the early 20th century, recent immigrates skip the city centers and go straight for the suburbs. Gwinnett with it's good schools and low cost of living is an ideal place to settle.
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Old 09-16-2016, 03:41 PM
 
96 posts, read 113,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Gwinnett is economically a successful place, but it is also mixed-economy at the same time.

Between Gwinnett and the Northlake/I/85 north corridor in Dekalb there is over 40 million square feet of office space and it is the largest industrial submarket in the region.

So part of what drives the growth is people are following jobs. I also tend to think many of these ethnic cultures end up in the area, because the group as a whole has many different types of people and if they are to cluster in a given area it needs to be more economically mixed.

North Fulton is a successful economic place by leaps and bounds, but it isn't that diversified. It is almost all high-end office space, which isn't a bad thing for them, but it doesn't leave jobs for everyone.

Cobb is more mixed than North Fulton. it actually has a decent insustrial submarket, but it is quite a bit smaller. That area does trend a bit more white collar..

Industrial sq footage:
Northeast: 179.6 msf (million square feet)
North:29.7 msf
Northwest: 67.8 msf
West: 21.3msf
South: 162.7msf
I-20 east: 46.3 msf
Stone Mountain: 26.9 msf
central Atlanta: 14.6 msf

The point being is Gwinnett stands out in the region as having both a large amount of office space and a large amount of industrial space. Most other parts of town are biased toward one or the other or are sleepy. Example: South (industrial), central (office), North (office), northwest (office/mild industrial), I-20 east and west (pretty sleepy on the jobs front).


Granted, this also leads to an awkward thing for Gwinnett. It is growing in a way where it has a more economically diversified population with different needs and they have to find a way to make that work. It is a little weird to me as a long-time resident in that you use to be able to make a blanket statement about what Gwinnett was or how nice Gwinnett was or wasn't. Now you really pick over the differences across the county much more.

Gwinnett actually has a more dense zoning plan (current, not necessarily past zoning plan). They allow for more townhomes and smaller lot neighborhoods to be built, especially closer to I-85. It is also scattered across a large area along I-85. This will make it more affordable for some.


Beyond that once religious and cultural institutions put down roots, new populations follow them. Ironocally, you could almost call H Mart a cultural institution for Koreans Americans. I met a nice on a flight from Atlanta one day and mentioned he was from Duluth and I asked this very question. The way he put it is Koreans will follow the H Mart. Go into any region and they will look up where the H Marts are and those are the areas they will consider. Of course, I'm sure H Mart is just a proxy for finding where other Koreans are.

Now I wouldn't rule out Dekalb, at least not all of it. For some cultures the first place they put down roots was along Buford highway. North Dekalb shares the same traits Gwinnett does. That growth grew outward from that corridor in Dekalb and then exploded.

Lastly, in just over 2 decades Gwinnett has more than doubled in population. This is partly why the percentages have changed so much. The difference is who is in the population of newcomers during that time period. If Gwinnett was previously built out and the population only increased by a moderate amount, it would take far longer for the existing population to turnover. So much of the fast changes can be attributed to fast growth and a change of what populations are growing in the region at the same time.

It is also important to note that there is a large spike in immigration into our country right now from a variety of cultures. This is especially true for Koreans. They weren't that present across the country or in our region, but they are moving in droves now. Gwinnett has had a faster rate of growth during the period. Had Cobb seen its major wave of growth 10-15 years later, then it might have looked a bit more like Gwinnett does.

Anyways sorry for the long answer. I think many of these things encourage/attribute this.
Thanks for the help
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Old 09-16-2016, 04:14 PM
 
24 posts, read 25,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealthfox94 View Post
Oh no I wouldn't either. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Difference is most whites still view Gwinnett as a viable place to live and raise a family the same can't be said about Clayton County. Also with white flight it's generally one race replacing whites as the majority race. Gwinnett County currently doesn't have a majority race at all and is unlikely to any time soon.
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Georgia
3,787 posts, read 3,490,208 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumbfounded12 View Post
Difference is most whites still view Gwinnett as a viable place to live and raise a family the same can't be said about Clayton County. Also with white flight it's generally one race replacing whites as the majority race. Gwinnett County currently doesn't have a majority race at all and is unlikely to any time soon.
Gwinnett County Georgia QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Whites make up 57 percent of Gwinnett County, which is what I would call majority. Also Gwinnett County is also large in land area. Whites tend to move further away from minority neighborhoods. You'd find that Gwinnett isn't as integrated as a county like Clayton.
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,064 posts, read 8,492,285 times
Reputation: 5219
Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
Gwinnett County Georgia QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Whites make up 57 percent of Gwinnett County, which is what I would call majority. Also Gwinnett County is also large in land area. Whites tend to move further away from minority neighborhoods. You'd find that Gwinnett isn't as integrated as a county like Clayton.
That is because they are white Hispanics, whom we consider to be a minority in our society as well.

From your same source:

White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent, July 1, 2015: 39.6%

And because I don't want the absence of presence of white and/or black people to become a de facto index of diversity

Black: 27.6%
Hispanic: 20.5%
Asian: 11.8%

It gets even more interesting when you look at the smaller populations. When I go to a store in several areas I will see someone who is white, but I will overhear an Eastern European language.

Additionally, I'm not here to put down Clayton Co, but most diversity indexes have Gwinnett as the highest in the region and it happens over a much larger area. It also holds up better as you look for indexes that only value a mix of 3-4+ different groupings over just 2.

Examples:



Source: http://www.neighborhoodnexus.org/sit...ersity_map.png



Also check out the top map on the last page, page 8: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...33178914,d.amc


Clayton actually has a majority.
Clayton County Georgia QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau


it is 68.7% black
Asian: 5.4%
Hispanic: 13%
White, Non-hispanic: 13.5%

Also, consider the percentage foreign born residents:

Gwinnett: 24.6%
Clayton: 15.1%

Gwinnett's diversity is pretty extreme and a large part of its current identity.



Source: UNITED STATES QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau
Attached Thumbnails
How and why did Gwinnett County change?-atlanta_gw_cl_race.jpg  
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