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Old 11-15-2016, 12:00 PM
 
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Also the Electoral College is basically the delegates system

In December the Electoral College vote for the next president, That's right the Electoral College votes for the next president.... not the people directly...

It will be unusual and this never happen before but the Electoral College can go against election day results all together.
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Larger states do control everything again if some won the 11 most states the other 39 wouldn't matter.

The Electoral College and winner take all, creates a situation of the red and Blue states, small states like washington and Arkansas will ignored oppose to campaigns going to all the states.
The fact is, Republicans should see the writing on the wall, states with rising Democratic numbers will overtake places like TX, NC, GA, and AZ in the next couple decades, and as mentioned it won't take many states for one side to win out.

Currently it's still up in the air, but those numbers are shifting.
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Old 11-15-2016, 02:14 PM
 
770 posts, read 600,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
Also the Electoral College is basically the delegates system

In December the Electoral College vote for the next president, That's right the Electoral College votes for the next president.... not the people directly...

It will be unusual and this never happen before but the Electoral College can go against election day results all together.
I agree, this could be the most interesting electoral vote in history. Would be surprised if a few won't vote or vote for someone else.

I personally don't think the state legislatures have the strength, desire to go against tradition and history to keep him out, even though if you look at the words of Alexander Hamilton, the idea was to have the EC to keep someone unprepared, without the appropriate knowledge and a popular demagogue from taking the highest office, just because he got the victory by the people, if this year's election doesn't speak to that, I don't know what does.

If they did, they'd be wise to throw it to a different, safer Republican, then they still got their victory by the people, but just saw him as unfit, but as I've said, I don't see them doing it, too much history to say otherwise.
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Old 11-15-2016, 05:43 PM
 
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This is the easiest way to think about it:

* Each state gets a certain number of votes (electors) based on size and population.
* Each states' electors vote for the candidate who wins the popular vote in their respective state.
* Essentially, whoever wins the popular vote in the most "big" states wins the election.

What a lot of peoeol don't understand is that each state is in fact a sovereign "country" and that federal decisions are not made by the people as a whitle but by the states. How states express their will at a federal level is up to them and in all but two states, votes to decide president are wholly awarded by simple majority of popular votes.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:27 AM
bUU
 
Location: Florida
12,077 posts, read 10,661,982 times
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Originally Posted by Domitian View Post
What a lot of peoeol don't understand is that each state is in fact a sovereign "country"
The reason why people don't understand that is because it is untrue, and ratified by the Fourteenth Amendment, shall never be true barring another amending of the Constitution.
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
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The United States is clearly one country, not 50 sovereign states.

But even if that were true, that still wouldn't justify why a democratically elected federal position representing everyone in all of those 50 states, every individual equally, should not be decided by majority vote thereof.
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by bUU View Post
The reason why people don't understand that is because it is untrue, and ratified by the Fourteenth Amendment, shall never be true barring another amending of the Constitution.
Ok. So why are there state borders? Why governors? Senators? Legislatures? Constitutions? Different laws? Budgets? Etc?

A good example of state sovereignty is marijuana laws. In some states it's legal and in others it is not. Federal law still says it is illegal but Feds just choose to not enforce it. Another is 2nd amendement rights - states, cities, and other jurisdictions who try to ban fire arms cannot do so as they infringe upon implicit federal rights (I.e. Right to bear arms)

The 14 th amendement puts state sovereignty in a subservient position relative to federal law in terms of equal protection (human rights). It essentially says that being part of the coalition of states that make up the United States, states must abide by federal law when it comes to equal protection under the law.

I have a feeling over the next 4 years this is going to come up over and over again on both sides of the isle. Traditionally independent states such as Texas, LA, Ga, etc. will want an elevation of state rule while states/cities traditionally all in for "big federal government" (Chicago, NYC, SFO) will want to elevate state/local rights as they fight to retain their sanctuary city status.

Despite all that, the fact remains, your vote is only valid within the state you live as a citizen. That's why you're registered in your state and not at the federal level. That's why you vote on measures relevant to your state and municipality. That's why presidential candidates must register and qualify to be on the ballot in all states, not just at the federal level.
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitian View Post
Ok. So why are there state borders?
Because the states are political sub-entities of the union. They have some degree of sovereignty as defined by the Constitution and various Supreme Court precedent, but they're also a part of the country which is united and sovereign as one entity.

England is a country that is also a constituent part of another united sovereign country, the UK.

South Dakota, however, is not and has never been considered a country. It has a limited recognition of sovereignty, somewhere between a sub-country like England, and an administrative region of a country.
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:52 AM
 
1,160 posts, read 708,622 times
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Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
The United States is clearly one country, not 50 sovereign states.

But even if that were true, that still wouldn't justify why a democratically elected federal position representing everyone in all of those 50 states, every individual equally, should not be decided by majority vote thereof.
The 10 th amendment says otherwise.

Electoral college protects your representatin just as it protects mine. Again, your vote counts in your own state in terms of election electors.

How can you look at this map and think anyone other than "red" won?

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Old 11-16-2016, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,830 posts, read 7,190,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitian View Post
How can you look at this map and think anyone other than "red" won?
Well, for starters, I'm not an idiot or 4-year-old who thinks that geography has anything to do with population.

Blue won the majority vote. Red won because of a bizarre system of determining the victor.
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