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Old 11-10-2016, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Atlanta and St Simons Island, GA
20,910 posts, read 32,919,102 times
Reputation: 12561

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubie16 View Post
And again, that would undercut the core of federalism that this country was founded on. We have two levels of government in this country, both State and Federal. We do not have a unitary system of government (National only). We also don't have a confederal system of government (states more powerful but have weaker national). We have a Federal system, where state and national governments share power equally.

We were not founded as simply one nation. We are one nation made up of 50 states with different values, laws, and ways of living. The 50 states together elect the president, hence the "United States" of America.

This is why we have the electoral college...for each state to independently decide who they want to be president, and then those electoral votes (distributed by population...California has more say than Georgia, for example) decide the presidency.
And here is the most eloquent defense of the Electoral College that I've seen here so far. +1 for you, Aubie.

Last edited by Iconographer; 11-10-2016 at 09:33 AM..
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Atlanta and St Simons Island, GA
20,910 posts, read 32,919,102 times
Reputation: 12561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubie16 View Post
I voted for Gary Johnson, in the interest of disclosure.

The winner take all of each state is the very foundation of it and was put in place for a reason. The states are electing the president, not the people as I tried to explain in the post above about a unitary, federal, and confederal systems of government. I personally think it was a brilliant move from the founders.

It really doesn't matter if "the public wants to get rid of it", unless there is enough support to get a constitutional amendment passed.

edit: I also think you are underestimating the average voter if you believe the majority of people think the popular vote elects the president. Every election the talk is about winning key battleground states and we stare at the blue/red map all night.
I am a Gary Johnson voter as well. I presume OSC is as well, so at least we're all three on the same page on that.
I'll say it once more: We NEED the Libertarian Party in this country, or at least a party that would advocate keeping the Federal Government limited to its' role as defined by the Constitution.
There; stepping off the soapbox now...
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,458 posts, read 1,430,773 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aubie16 View Post
I voted for Gary Johnson, in the interest of disclosure.

The winner take all of each state is the very foundation of it and was put in place for a reason. The states are electing the president, not the people as I tried to explain in the post above about a unitary, federal, and confederal systems of government. I personally think it was a brilliant move from the founders.

It really doesn't matter if "the public wants to get rid of it", unless there is enough support to get a constitutional amendment passed.

edit: I also think you are underestimating the average voter if you believe the majority of people think the popular vote elects the president. Every election the talk is about winning key battleground states and we stare at the blue/red map all night.
Half the country didn't even vote. I think it's a safe bet to say that most are not aware of it. Most people don't watch CNN, Fox or MSNBC. During prime time they tune into whatever mindless drivel is on TV or the Netflix feed. Just because people on websites like this seem to be engaged at least somewhat doesn't mean that this is representative of America as a whole. Most people in this country are not that smart or they could quite simply care less. If they were then we wouldn't let these politicians on both sides of the aisle ram this BS down our throat year after year.
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:33 AM
 
44,600 posts, read 43,135,258 times
Reputation: 14398
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrygal View Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyIFqf3XH24


"Fair and square?" Maybe I am dense, but it still does not make sense as to how any candidate with more votes than his/her opponent can still end up losing an election. I don't get it.
In short, my vote doesn't count.
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Atlanta and St Simons Island, GA
20,910 posts, read 32,919,102 times
Reputation: 12561
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldschoolChevy View Post
Half the country didn't even vote. I think it's a safe bet to say that most are not aware of it. Most people don't watch CNN, Fox or MSNBC. During prime time they tune into whatever mindless drivel is on TV or the Netflix feed. Just because people on websites like this seem to be engaged at least somewhat doesn't mean that this is representative of America as a whole. Most people in this country are not that smart or they could quite simply care less. If they were then we wouldn't let these politicians on both sides of the aisle ram this BS down our throat year after year.
I wholly agree with you, but by stating so aren't you rather undermining your argument for a pure democracy?
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,554 posts, read 8,625,825 times
Reputation: 5065
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
In short, my vote doesn't count.
Sure your vote counts. The system simply ensures that the little states have a voice in the election. Think of how the Congress is organized. In the Senate, each state has the same vote - 2 each. That protects the little states. In the House, each state's vote is based upon its population. So, the big states have a louder voice. Combined, the Senate and the House, the Congress ensures equitable representation in the legislature. The electoral college reflects this same philosophy.

So, don't feel disenfranchised. Your vote most certainly counts.
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Atlanta and St Simons Island, GA
20,910 posts, read 32,919,102 times
Reputation: 12561
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
In short, my vote doesn't count.
Of course it does. At any rate, what is your alternative? To not vote at all?
The 2000 election threw that idea out the window. Ever since then pundits have been breaking down vote analysis by county and even precinct level. They know it matters.
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Oxford, CT
3,556 posts, read 2,324,151 times
Reputation: 2898
One man, one vote.

Electoral colleges are nonsense.
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:43 AM
 
27,758 posts, read 24,784,942 times
Reputation: 16479
Standard civics-class accounts of the Electoral College rarely mention the real demon dooming direct national election in 1787 and 1803: slavery.

At the Philadelphia convention, the visionary Pennsylvanian James Wilson proposed direct national election of the president. But the savvy Virginian James Madison responded that such a system would prove unacceptable to the South: “The right of suffrage was much more diffusive [i.e., extensive] in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes.” In other words, in a direct election system, the North would outnumber the South, whose many slaves (more than half a million in all) of course could not vote. But the Electoral College—a prototype of which Madison proposed in this same speech—instead let each southern state count its slaves, albeit with a two-fifths discount, in computing its share of the overall count.


Election 2016: The Real Reason the Electoral Exists
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Old 11-10-2016, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Atlanta and St Simons Island, GA
20,910 posts, read 32,919,102 times
Reputation: 12561
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Sure your vote counts. The system simply ensures that the little states have a voice in the election. Think of how the Congress is organized. In the Senate, each state has the same vote - 2 each. That protects the little states. In the House, each state's vote is based upon its population. So, the big states have a louder voice. Combined, the Senate and the House, the Congress ensures equitable representation in the legislature. The electoral college reflects this same philosophy.

So, don't feel disenfranchised. Your vote most certainly counts.
Ah, AP, every time you post I fall a little bit more in love...

Right now the Dems are pissed off at the existence of the Electoral College. When the tables turn (and they always do), it will be the Repubs that are fuming. So it goes.
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