MARTA Expansion could be on 2017 Fulton Ballot (Atlanta, East Point: trains, suburbs)

[fieldm]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I mean look at Fulton County leadership, they went to Dallas to view 'successful' transit, WTF?!

They are country bumpkin idiots. Go to NYC for real successful transit with express trains, commuter rail, 24 hour service,etc, etc.

[primaltech]

Honestly, really the best solution all-around for South Fulton, would be a 'busway' type system. In terms of demand/need, effectiveness, cost, time to build, etc. Even better than CRT (especially given the difficulty of working with freight corridors.)

A busway system with 3 different lines, one for I-85, one for S Fulton Pkwy, and one for Camp Creek Pkwy. All originating at College Park MARTA station.

I'm envisioning a bus (probably articulated/high capacity, and maybe catenary-electrified or battery powered), that drops off/picks up at College Park station, and then runs in its own dedicated ramp/roadway system, either built above ground or tunneled, cruising for miles, with no stops or traffic, and then makes only a few stops along each of those corridors, with each one being a nice BRT-type station with commuter parking lot.

And then you put those lines and stations on the MARTA map, and call it a day.

Kind of like an express/long range commuter version of a BRT, in its own newly constructed, dedicated ROW. Not a short-range more common idea of a BRT, and definitely not a "frequent local bus". Because if it doesn't have its own ROW, people just won't ride it. They won't see it as enough of an advantage over their car.

[MattCW]

By the time you've invested that much into BRT, especially with the electrification and/or tunneling, CRT to Palmetto would be cheaper by far, and able to far more effectively serve the market.

[primaltech]

I just meant maybe a short tunnel in that busy airport area, until it gets outside 285, where it would be above ground. And maybe it wouldn't even need a tunnel at all.

But yeah, it could be CRT or LRT also as well.

Main point being, the South Fulton area doesn't need urban-oriented solutions. They simply need a place to drive to and park, and then take an express, traffic-bypassing, commuter transit ride (on something) to College Park station, where they connect with MARTA HRT from there, either north or to the airport.

Whatever's the cheapest, easiest way to accomplish that, without compromising on quality.

[MattCW]

If it's CRT, it should go all the way to Atlanta, no reason to stop short at College Park.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

If it's CRT, it should go all the way to Atlanta, no reason to stop short at College Park.

It would stop at East Point, but the point stands. With two routes, though, it's easier to really sell continuing to Downtown. Harder to ignore, at least.

[MattCW]

Why would it stop at East Point? That's stupid.

Originally Posted by Gulch

So...MARTA.

No...MARTA has fewer outlying lines, and they don't reach nearly as far.

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

But MARTA has far more riders, let alone more riders per mile, than DART. So... like a worse MARTA.

So they have a few points that aren't quite as good as MARTA. That hardly makes them a failure.

Originally Posted by fieldm

They are country bumpkin idiots. Go to NYC for real successful transit with express trains, commuter rail, 24 hour service,etc, etc.

So if a transit system isn't NYC-class, then it's a failure? Wow, tough standard, guess we really shouldn't build transit here since it won't be like NYC.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Why would it stop at East Point? That's stupid.

Because the airport is a major destination for transit trips, and you're going to make people go twice as far out of the way to Downtown Atlanta, then come back the same way? Any commuter rail setup would need that intermediate stop at East Point or College Park, to allow for that transfer.

(Unless the commuter rail stops at the airport.)

[Ant131531]

Why are we so keen on expanding transit in super sprawled suburban and exurban counties? That's what COMMUTER rail is for. We need extensive transit in and around the city first, then build around these transit stops. Maybe also around employment nodes like Cumberland and Perimeter.

I think if we do have heavy rail extension, extend it eastward to Stonecrest and northward to Northern Alpharetta.

Expanding transit into suburban countiess like Gwinnett will only encourage more sprawl. We need transit inside the city so that more apartments and dense nodes develop inside of the city itself. Last thing we need to do is give more reason for people to live 20 miles out.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by MattCW

Why would it stop at East Point? That's stupid.

Well, because that's the currently proposed terminus of the Clayton Commuter Rail line. Sharing a terminus there would make sense until they can properly terminate in Downtown.

So they have a few points that aren't quite as good as MARTA. That hardly makes them a failure.

I mean, MARTA rail has 2.3 times the ridership that DART rail does, with just over half the route miles. I didn't really say it was a failure so much as I don't think we should be using it as a model.

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Why are we so keen on expanding transit in super sprawled suburban and exurban counties? That's what COMMUTER rail is for. We need extensive transit in and around the city first, then build around these transit stops. Maybe also around employment nodes like Cumberland and Perimeter.

I mean, quite a few of us are actively suggesting commuter rail. On top of that, the City of Atlanta has already dedicated funding for the 'in and around the city' component. In fact, it is so far the first area to approve transit expansion funding.

Additional routes around Cumberland are up to Cobb to make happen, while additional routes in Perimeter are actively described in the linked report.

I think if we do have heavy rail extension, extend it eastward to Stonecrest and northward to Northern Alpharetta.

Well, this is talking only about Fulton county, and, as such, the Connect 400 route is explicitly included, and suggested, at least as an option, to be heavy rail.

A Stonecrest expansion is DeKalb's domain, and, as such, is not included in a Fulton county study.

Expanding transit into suburban countiess like Gwinnett will only encourage more sprawl. We need transit inside the city so that more apartments and dense nodes develop inside of the city itself. Last thing we need to do is give more reason for people to live 20 miles out.

Gwinnett, the suburban county, just so happens to be the second most populous county in the state of Georgia, and the third most dense. By 2040, Gwinnett is projected to surpass Fulton County as the most populated county in the metro. Especially to the active I-85 corridor, and through the historic rail road towns.

It 100% makes sense to expand high-capacity, as well as all the other capacities, of transit into Gwinnett. Given that the current topic is Fulton, however, we're mostly talking about that.