More Highway Widening (Marietta, Adairsville: move, suburbs, pay)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

Be careful what you wish for. Beijing may have more people, but they also have many times more 8-12 lane (or more) roads and highways within an area smaller than our perimeter. Is that what you want?

Yes, I am supportive of a similar number of per capita highway lane-miles as beijing has. As I have said multiple times in this thread, I am not saying we need to get rid of all highways.

[architect77]

Originally Posted by censusdata

Atlanta needed multiple belt lines like Houston or Phoenix. A lot of through traffic is forced to go all the way to I-285 or even downtown.

Yes. 2-3 million people live on north side and have 1, only 1, highway to move East- West.

That is preposterous.

A northern arc, or decent upgrade to GA20 is more than overdue.

I-285 desperately needs an alternative.

When traffic is sitting still on I-285, there should be a survey taken of drivers' origin and destination.

Yesterday I drove to Brandsmart in Doraville and was appalled at conditions of Spaghetti Junction, trash on flyovers, Peachtree Industrial Access Rd signs faded and falling off, crooked signals with yellow outline...

Atlanta's roads look like a 100% dump.

[primaltech]

A limited access northern arc will probably never happen, and probably shouldn't. But, we could do better, with arterial roads:

1. 92/140 should be 6 lanes between I-75 and I-85 (which I think it mostly is, minus a couple sections).

2. 20 should be 6 lanes between I-75 and I-85 (and straightened out some).

3. 53 should be 4 lanes between I-75 and I-85, and straightened out quite a bit. And I-575 and 400 extended to meet it.

Then we'd have 3 'northern arcs' to help relieve I-285, and that could take some trucks off of it.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by primaltech

A limited access northern arc will probably never happen, and probably shouldn't. But, we could do better, with arterial roads:

1. 92/140 should be 6 lanes between I-75 and I-85 (which I think it mostly is, minus a couple sections).

2. 20 should be 6 lanes between I-75 and I-85 (and straightened out some).

3. 53 should be 4 lanes between I-75 and I-85, and straightened out quite a bit. And I-575 and 400 extended to meet it.

Then we'd have 3 'northern arcs' to help relieve I-285, and that could take some trucks off of it.

Those are good comments, good analysis, good suggestions and good ideas on ways to improve east-west vehicular mobility and traffic movements north of Atlanta.

You are right that GA 92/140 does have some six-lane sections (near and just east of the I-575/GA 92 interchange in Woodstock in South Cherokee County; between Sandy Plains Road in the northeast corner of Cobb County and just east of the GA 400/GA 140 interchange in Roswell in North Fulton County; and between GA 13 Buford Highway through the I-85/Jimmy Carter Boulevard interchange east to Rockbridge Road in Norcross in Gwinnett County).

GA 20 has basically been expanded to a divided four-lane highway from just west of the GA 400 junction to just south of the GA 316 junction (including through the I-985 and I-85 junctions where the GA 20 roadway expands to 6-8 lanes through the heavily-congested Mall of Georgia area).

The State of Georgia has expressed a desire to expand the GA 20 roadway to a 4-5 lane roadway from west of Cumming over to the I-575 junction in Canton, but public opposition to road expansion in the area (fueled by an ongoing paranoia over the Northern Arc controversy that continues to linger from the turn-of-the-Millennium) has made it difficult for the state to move forward on any meaningful expansion of GA 20 west of Cumming.

The section of GA 20 between Canton and Cartersville (basically between Interstates 575 and 75 in Western Cherokee and Eastern Bartow counties) seems to be highly unlikely to be further expanded at this point in time because of the political sensitivities of that area involving environmentalists and area residents.

(...The GA 20 roadway runs near and through a Red Top Mountain Park and Lake Allatoona area that in the past was protected from development and was the major source of contention between the federal government, Georgia state government, environmentalists and development/road construction-averse local residents, particularly when the construction of I-75 in the area of Lake Allatoona and Red Top Mountain Park was delayed for several years back in the 1960's and '70's.)

GA 53 between the GA 515 (northern extension of I-575) and I-985 junctions would be even that much more politically difficult to straighten and expand because of the heavily-wooded extremely hilly-to-mountainous terrain that the road traverses in the foothills of the Southern Appalachians and because of the presence of a City of Atlanta-owned forest preserve (that was once intended to be the site of a second major regional airport) and because of the presence of the popular Lake Lanier area along the path of GA 53 through that area.

The fierce opposition and resistance of area residents and environmentalists (who are fiercely protective of the scenery of that part of the state north of Atlanta) would most likely resurrect the vicious turn-of-the-Millennium-era political fights that led to the defeat of the Northern Arc in the early 2000's and make any type of straightening and expansion of GA 53 through North Georgia a political impossibility.

With large-scale east-west road expansion basically being a political impossibility anywhere north of I-285 between I-75 Northwest and I-85 Northeast, a road expansion project that potentially might be viable might be to do something similar to the $5 billion expansion that the State of Texas recently did in double-decking about 12-13 miles of the I-635 LBJ Beltway across the Northside of Dallas.

In addition to the pending long-overdue reconstruction of the I-285/GA 400 interchange, the State of Georgia already has plans to add between 2-4 bi-directional toll lanes to the top half of the I-285 Perimeter north of I-20. But the State of Georgia also potentially could get away with building some type of additional expansion to I-285 by way of a new elevated over or tunneled under the existing lanes of the I-285 Top End Perimeter....But most likely ONLY IF the State of Georgia includes a very robust east-west high-capacity transit option as part of any future large-scale expansion of the I-285 Top End Perimeter between the Interstate 75 Northwest and 85 Northeast junctions.

As for the widening of I-85 northeast of Atlanta in Gwinnett and Jackson counties....The State of Georgia has wanted (and needed) to widen that stretch of I-85 for many years (since about the early-mid 1990's) because of the increasing traffic counts and increasing conflicts between trucks and cars that have resulted in many very deadly collisions along that stretch of roadway.

As numerous other posters have noted throughout the thread, the state governments of Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina and Virginia (at the continued urging of the federal government) are moving to eventually widen the entire stretch of I-85 to at least 6 lanes from between southwest of Atlanta and the I-85/I-95 junction in Petersburg, Virginia because of the continued explosive growth (of population, development, industry and traffic) along the I-85 corridor, particularly through the states of GA, SC and NC.

I-85 has evolved (and continues to evolve) into a major transcontinental superhighway link between the Gulf of Mexico coast and the heavily-populated and urbanized Northeast Corridor by way of the explosively growing GA-SC-NC Southeastern Piedmont.

The widening of the remaining 4-lane sections of I-85 northeast of Atlanta are actually about 2 decades or so behind schedule and is reflective of this nation's increasing lack of investment in transportation infrastructure in recent years and decades.

The long-overdue widening of the remaining 4-lane sections of the I-85 roadway northeast of Atlanta to 6 lanes does not negate the need for a robust high-speed interstate passenger rail and freight rail alternative through the explosively-growing Southeastern Piedmont corridor.

If anything, the long-overdue widening of the remaining 4-lane sections of the I-85 roadway northeast of Atlanta to 6 lanes only underscores the continued pressing need for a robust high-speed passenger rail and freight rail alternative to I-85 through the explosively-growing Southeastern Piedmont region between Atlanta and Washington.

[cqholt]

In addition to the pending long-overdue reconstruction of the I-285/GA 400 interchange, the State of Georgia already has plans to add between 2-4 bi-directional toll lanes to the top half of the I-285 Perimeter north of I-20. But the State of Georgia also potentially could get away with building some type of additional expansion to I-285 by way of a new elevated over or tunneled under the existing lanes of the I-285 Top End Perimeter....But most likely ONLY IF the State of Georgia includes a very robust east-west high-capacity transit option as part of any future large-scale expansion of the I-285 Top End Perimeter between the Interstate 75 Northwest and 85 Northeast junctions.

Only if that project included dedicated BRT lanes or grade separated guideway for transit, not HOT lanes.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Only if that project included dedicated BRT lanes or grade separated guideway for transit, not HOT lanes.

HOT lanes are the best way to do it. You have lanes that are used by transit that are paid for (at least partly) by other users and get fully utilized during rush hour and heavily utilized other times instead of being vacant.

[bu2]

I do think there should be a hard look at whether heavy rail makes sense along 285 between Doraville, Perimeter Mall and Cumberland Mall, but it seems they have already rejected rail along that corridor.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bu2

I do think there should be a hard look at whether heavy rail makes sense along 285 between Doraville, Perimeter Mall and Cumberland Mall, but it seems they have already rejected rail along that corridor.

Frequent BRT-level service with dedicated ramps to stations would be a far cheaper solution and could approach the same level service.

[primaltech]

First you'd have to extend rail to Cobb and Gwinnett, only then would it make sense to look at rail along 285 top end. For now, it's stupid, because people still have to drive to get to 285.

For now, as cqholt said, best solution is a MARTA shuttle bus system between Doraville/Dunwoody/Cumberland, via either bus-only lanes, or at least in managed HOT lanes with dedicated access ramps, right near the stations. (New Peachtree Rd, Perimeter Center Pkwy would both be perfect.)

[cqholt]

Today the U.S. Department of Transportation released a “Transportation Toolkit,” a plain-language citizen’s guide to the government’s process for major infrastructure undertakings, and how to get involved. Along with approachable graphics and flowcharts, the kit goes over the basic timelines that road, rail, bridge, and aviation projects usually follow, crucial concepts, entities, and laws that inform those processes, and the best strategies to make citizen voices heard. Think of this as everything you wanted to know about transportation planning, but were afraid to ask.

US DOT Transportation Toolkit Helps Public Engagement - CityLab