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Old 12-14-2016, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,167 posts, read 16,168,399 times
Reputation: 4894

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikigod311 View Post
MARTA is not going to be absorbed. Not happening, not worth the incredible amount of effort on the state level. The fighting involved would be INTENSE.

What I do see happening is GRTA handling commuter rail across the board and operating it inside the current MARTA service area. I personally think it is silly to have two agencies duplicate services/infrastructure and would lead to completely unnecessary duplicate costs. GRTA is in a good position to handle this, it will be able to expand rail w/o the inevitable intense push back that MARTA would bring along with it, as wrong as that may be.

I'm really looking forward to what they come up with, as long as they don't try to flex their muscle towards MARTA. While my real expectations are low, I am quite optimistic about seeing rail funding from the state fairly soon. Where you at Born 2 Roll?
I could see Atlanta, Fulton, Dekalb, Clayton bringing suits against Georgia on the grounds of removing minority, locally appointed leaders to the board for governor appointed leaders (mostly white, conservatives.)
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,167 posts, read 16,168,399 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
Just merge GRTA/MARTA/CCT/GCT all into GRTA, and then rename GRTA to MARTA. And put Keith Parker in charge of it all.

That would be the best compromise. Keep the best of all worlds. Keep the MARTA name/brand, keep Keith (while giving him a nice promotion), add the north side Republicans and business interests to the board, get the state backing and funding, and also keep the existing MARTA sales tax agreements in the 3 counties + 1 city, for improved, city-caliber transit in their area.

Cobb could optionally opt to pay for 1% for MARTA rail lines and BRT/ART and all that. But at least even if they don't, all the existing bus lines and services in the county would still all be MARTA, so at least there wouldn't be a need for transfers.

Etc etc. Just a simple agency consolidation of exactly what we already have, would make for so much more efficient of a system. And for cheaper, I'm sure. We'd certainly be able to squeeze a little more and better transit out of it, for nothing.
Why would Cobb County get service without contributing the same level funding as Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton? Got to pay to play and right now Cobb is not paying so they are not playing on the same level as MARTA service counties.
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Old 12-14-2016, 06:35 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
5,244 posts, read 4,380,092 times
Reputation: 2723
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I could see Atlanta, Fulton, Dekalb, Clayton bringing suits against Georgia on the grounds of removing minority, locally appointed leaders to the board for governor appointed leaders (mostly white, conservatives.)
Absolutely and those arguments would have a lot of teeth. There will be no hostile takeover or absorption of MARTA by the state.

BTW, I find it humorous how C-D seems to come alive when people start their workday GET TO WORK YOU SLACKERS
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Vinings
5,942 posts, read 2,911,446 times
Reputation: 3178
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Why would Cobb County get service without contributing the same level funding as Fulton, DeKalb, and Clayton? Got to pay to play and right now Cobb is not paying so they are not playing on the same level as MARTA service counties.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm suggesting.

Cobb wouldn't get more than whatever we already have, which we do pay for, either thru county or state taxes, (or existing arrangements with the existing MARTA, in the case of 2 bus routes that serve Cobb).

It's just that, everything, including the existing MARTA, would be consolidated into one single entity, (which would hopefully be called MARTA). The county property taxes that pay for CCT/CobbLinc would stay the same, it would just go to the new MARTA. The gas tax or whatever state taxes that pay for our GRTA Xpress commuter services would stay the same, it would just go to (the new, state-level agency) MARTA.

We wouldn't get nearly as much transit in the county as we would get with a 1% sales tax, but we would get something, at least for whatever it is we are currently paying for transit.

The advantages would be in the synergy, the overall resource management efficiency gained by the consolidation. Along with not needing the Cumberland Transfer Center. Along with no fare transfers, everything handled by Breeze card. Etc etc.

Cobb would be a member of MARTA, just like the rest of the 13 counties. But we (for now) just wouldn't be a 'first class' member that pays a sales tax for vastly increased transit service. We would have more service than Cherokee County, because we would have some bus routes paid for by our property tax (the former CCT). Cherokee would only have the former Xpress bus or whatever they have.

MARTA currently already has tiers in what services areas pay what. Atlanta now pays 50% more sales tax for MARTA than the other service areas, and so will be getting better transit for it, only in Atlanta.

Pay to play, yes. You get what you pay for. It's just that with all these different agencies, everything is a big unnecessary convoluted mess, and we don't get the ideal arrangement we would have with one agency.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:08 AM
bu2
 
8,979 posts, read 5,673,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I could see Atlanta, Fulton, Dekalb, Clayton bringing suits against Georgia on the grounds of removing minority, locally appointed leaders to the board for governor appointed leaders (mostly white, conservatives.)
Like I said. Neither side trusts the other side.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Vinings
5,942 posts, read 2,911,446 times
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Same thing with Gwinnett. Whatever currently pays for GCT, would go to MARTA, and Gwinnett would be a member of MARTA.

So you could have a MARTA bus route from Doraville to Peachtree Corners to Johns Creek, via 141. And MARTA would handle the express commuter bus services from Indian Trail/Sugarloaf Mills/Hamilton Mill, to Lindbergh Station. And MARTA would run the bus routes on Satellite Blvd and Buford Highway and etc.

The bus routes might be adjusted a bit here and there, to take advantage of that synergy gained from sharing the same service area and being in the same agency as Fulton and DeKalb.

If Gwinnett wanted a heavy rail extension, they'd still have to raise a sales tax for MARTA.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,167 posts, read 16,168,399 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
I don't think you're understanding what I'm suggesting.

Cobb wouldn't get more than whatever we already have, which we do pay for, either thru county or state taxes, (or existing arrangements with the existing MARTA, in the case of 2 bus routes that serve Cobb).

It's just that, everything, including the existing MARTA, would be consolidated into one single entity, (which would hopefully be called MARTA). The county property taxes that pay for CCT/CobbLinc would stay the same, it would just go to the new MARTA. The gas tax or whatever state taxes that pay for our GRTA Xpress commuter services would stay the same, it would just go to (the new, state-level agency) MARTA.

We wouldn't get nearly as much transit in the county as we would get with a 1% sales tax, but we would get something, at least for whatever it is we are currently paying for transit.

The advantages would be in the synergy, the overall resource management efficiency gained by the consolidation. Along with not needing the Cumberland Transfer Center. Along with no fare transfers, everything handled by Breeze card. Etc etc.

Cobb would be a member of MARTA, just like the rest of the 13 counties. But we (for now) just wouldn't be a 'first class' member that pays a sales tax for vastly increased transit service. We would have more service than Cherokee County, because we would have some bus routes paid for by our property tax (the former CCT). Cherokee would only have the former Xpress bus or whatever they have.

MARTA currently already has tiers in what services areas pay what. Atlanta now pays 50% more sales tax for MARTA than the other service areas, and so will be getting better transit for it, only in Atlanta.

Pay to play, yes. You get what you pay for. It's just that with all these different agencies, everything is a big unnecessary convoluted mess, and we don't get the ideal arrangement we would have with one agency.
Yes there is a lot of duplication and inefficiencies having different transit agencies per county and then GRTA.
CTC would stay, as running a local bus route from Arts Center to Town Center, via I-75 HOV lanes and Cobb Pkwy is just too long, already CCT 10 is too long for local bus service. A better located CTC (with TOD) would benefit the entire metro as it would allow Express buses to access it via the Akers Mill HOV interchange (both north and south) and then passengers can transfer to Cumberland Circulator, Cobb Pkwy local bus service or route 20 (via South Cobb Dr.)
The level of funding also effects the level of leadership on the board. If Cobb pays no sales tax, then they do not get as many seats at the tables, as if they were a full 1% paying member.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:22 AM
 
28,138 posts, read 24,666,222 times
Reputation: 9534
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Like I said. Neither side trusts the other side.
Yup.

I'm not sure there's a lot to be gained by consolidating transit agencies. There might some advantages in schedule coordinating, but big bureaucracies tend to be slow, unresponsive and mired in waste.

What I'd like to see is the ATL flooding the zone with sleek modern, energy efficient buses. Cobb and Gwinnett can do the same with their transit systems.

Then outsource the routing and scheduling to some engineering firm with a lot of expertise and computing power who knows how to run a lean machine.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:24 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,167 posts, read 16,168,399 times
Reputation: 4894
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Yup.

I'm not sure there's a lot to be gained by consolidating transit agencies. There might some advantages in schedule coordinating, but big bureaucracies tend to be slow, unresponsive and mired in waste.

What I'd like to see is the ATL flooding the zone with sleek modern, energy efficient buses. Cobb and Gwinnett can do the same with their transit systems.

Then outsource the scheduling to some engineering firm with a lot of expertise and computing power who knows how to run a lean machine.
Once again, just flooding a corridor with buses will not instantly created demand or solve the issue and can in fact exacerbate the congestion with bus-bunching. Instead, well researched and designed BR and ART routes need to be created to provide service levels approaching that of fixed-guideway transit.
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Old 12-14-2016, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Vinings
5,942 posts, read 2,911,446 times
Reputation: 3178
There's actually a lot of transit in Cobb. A lot more than North Fulton has:

https://cobbcounty.org/images/docume...ap_12-2016.pdf

If MARTA were to take over and operate all of that, and optimally integrate it with the rest of MARTA, that in itself would be a huge win for Cobb, and Atlanta and the whole region, for no increase in taxes.

Also it would greatly ease the transition for Cobb deciding someday to raise more taxes for MARTA. Maybe they would start with a 0.5% sales tax, for BRT quality service along 41, and a nice, new park&ride Cumberland Transit Center. Or something like that.

Consolidate, b*tches. Come on.
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