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Old 11-03-2017, 08:01 PM
bu2
 
23,874 posts, read 14,666,291 times
Reputation: 12658

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
IMO, ITP areas need much more than just express services. Sure include a bit of a park & ride component, but higher frequency, continuous service along a proper route is very useful. Especially given the severe lack of it in SE Atlanta.
For the two outer ITP routes, what I was referring to would probably be called "limited" service. It would be a local route and then get on the HOV/HOT lane, possibly serving both of those stops or two separate ones serving just one of the two. When it got into town, it would have its first stop near a MARTA station for people transferring. That area beyond East Atlanta has a good bit of vacant land and its population is not growing. I read a few years ago that the Central DeKalb County School region (basically that area), has half the number of school age kids it had in 1980.
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Old 11-03-2017, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Prescott, AZ
5,559 posts, read 4,661,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
For high capacity transit, 1 mile seems pretty duplicative. You need volume and it would cannibalize what you already have. Its a lot of money for something that close to existing HRT.
The industry-standard capture area for a high-capacity transit station is a half-mile radius. 1 Mile away means that you've reached into two fully unique capture areas. You're far more likely to pull ridership from the local bus routes, like Routes 9 or 74, than from the Heavy Rail line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
For the two outer ITP routes, what I was referring to would probably be called "limited" service. It would be a local route and then get on the HOV/HOT lane, possibly serving both of those stops or two separate ones serving just one of the two. When it got into town, it would have its first stop near a MARTA station for people transferring.

That area beyond East Atlanta has a good bit of vacant land and its population is not growing. I read a few years ago that the Central DeKalb County School region (basically that area), has half the number of school age kids it had in 1980.
A cursory glance at the census tracts shows a mixed bag along the I-20 corridor. I found tracts that fit all three classes of decline, growth, and stagnation since 2010, and they seem to show up in fairly equal parts, but to apply the broad stroke of 'not growing' would be inaccurate, at least as of 2015.

Certainly we have to, once again, remember timelines here. DeKalb is expected to grow by ~22% by 2040. While the route is built out, a good bit of that growth will have already occurred, and with the rising values of ITP properties, and the growing demand for the same, it's not unlikely that previously slow areas will be filling in with overflow from more expensive areas.

Furthermore, a non insignificant amount of the growth that will occur after the route is finished could be focused and seeded around new transit stations. That is, if we supply stations suitable to actually seed TOD.
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Old 11-03-2017, 10:53 PM
bu2
 
23,874 posts, read 14,666,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourthwarden View Post
The industry-standard capture area for a high-capacity transit station is a half-mile radius. 1 Mile away means that you've reached into two fully unique capture areas. You're far more likely to pull ridership from the local bus routes, like Routes 9 or 74, than from the Heavy Rail line.



A cursory glance at the census tracts shows a mixed bag along the I-20 corridor. I found tracts that fit all three classes of decline, growth, and stagnation since 2010, and they seem to show up in fairly equal parts, but to apply the broad stroke of 'not growing' would be inaccurate, at least as of 2015.

Certainly we have to, once again, remember timelines here. DeKalb is expected to grow by ~22% by 2040. While the route is built out, a good bit of that growth will have already occurred, and with the rising values of ITP properties, and the growing demand for the same, it's not unlikely that previously slow areas will be filling in with overflow from more expensive areas.

Furthermore, a non insignificant amount of the growth that will occur after the route is finished could be focused and seeded around new transit stations. That is, if we supply stations suitable to actually seed TOD.
Local bus routes do feed those HRT stations. And there are parking lots and "kiss and ride" spaces all along the east line where people drive to the station. So there clearly will be cannibalization. Not of pure pedestrians, but certainly of riders and drivers.

The inner portions may be growing, but 30032 to the north of I-20 beyond Decatur declined 20% in population from 2000-2010. 30034 to the south also declined, by about 3%. Build it and they will come is a horrible strategy for investments of hundreds of millions of dollars.
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Old 11-04-2017, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,830 posts, read 7,182,353 times
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Hey, I got a pretty crazy idea. And MARTA and GDOT would have to team up on this one.

Extend the Lakewood freeway (Langford Pkwy) about 4 miles or so, to connect up with I-675, where it intersects with I-285. (And maybe designate that whole freeway out to Greebriar as I-675, while we're at it.) With only one new exit, at Moreland. Like a true express freeway. And with BRT in mind from the get-go. (A bus-only shoulder lane, or whatever.)

Then between Lakewood MARTA and the future Wesley Chapel MARTA stations, MARTA could do its BRT. With a few key park&ride bus stations, with lots of parking.

This would have a number of advantages. 1) You totally bypass and avoid I-20 and all that traffic, and all that mess in general. 2) You have a MARTA station ready to go in Lakewood, with a direct access ramp from that freeway. Perfectly ideal for a BRT. No street navigation required. And that station is on the Red/Gold main line, connecting with Downtown and the Airport. 3) That whole entire area is not built up at all, and there's hardly anything along I-285 in that area, with plenty of room to do BRT ramp modifications to it or median stations or whatever. Easier and cheaper to do so. 4) Residents in the Bouldercrest/ Gresham Park areas can drive south to get to the MARTA park&rides, against the flow of traffic. 5) It would serve OTP areas like Conley, in addition to the ITP areas.

Glenwood Park will be served by the Beltline transit. It doesn't need a BRT. Same goes for Grant Park and Ormewood Park. Plus, they can park & ride at King Memorial staiton.

East Atlanta Village and Glenwood Avenue corridor can be served by a high frequency bus route connecting with Inman Park/Reynoldstown station.

Final point: we need to eventually do something with I-675 anyway, and this is a relatively inexpensive solution for that. And not one that would feed even more cars onto I-20, but rather might even take some cars off of I-20.
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Old 11-04-2017, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,718,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech View Post
Hey, I got a pretty crazy idea. And MARTA and GDOT would have to team up on this one.

Extend the Lakewood freeway (Langford Pkwy) about 4 miles or so, to connect up with I-675, where it intersects with I-285. (And maybe designate that whole freeway out to Greebriar as I-675, while we're at it.) With only one new exit, at Moreland. Like a true express freeway. And with BRT in mind from the get-go. (A bus-only shoulder lane, or whatever.)

Then between Lakewood MARTA and the future Wesley Chapel MARTA stations, MARTA could do its BRT. With a few key park&ride bus stations, with lots of parking.

This would have a number of advantages. 1) You totally bypass and avoid I-20 and all that traffic, and all that mess in general. 2) You have a MARTA station ready to go in Lakewood, with a direct access ramp from that freeway. Perfectly ideal for a BRT. No street navigation required. And that station is on the Red/Gold main line, connecting with Downtown and the Airport. 3) That whole entire area is not built up at all, and there's hardly anything along I-285 in that area, with plenty of room to do BRT ramp modifications to it or median stations or whatever. Easier and cheaper to do so. 4) Residents in the Bouldercrest/ Gresham Park areas can drive south to get to the MARTA park&rides, against the flow of traffic. 5) It would serve OTP areas like Conley, in addition to the ITP areas.

Glenwood Park will be served by the Beltline transit. It doesn't need a BRT. Same goes for Grant Park and Ormewood Park. Plus, they can park & ride at King Memorial staiton.

East Atlanta Village and Glenwood Avenue corridor can be served by a high frequency bus route connecting with Inman Park/Reynoldstown station.

Final point: we need to eventually do something with I-675 anyway, and this is a relatively inexpensive solution for that. And not one that would feed even more cars onto I-20, but rather might even take some cars off of I-20.
NO! We are not removing more residents for freeways! If census tracts show population decline, then freeway construction will not help reverse that, but only accelerate the population loss and set the communities back further. There would be protest in the streets for any proposed ITP freeway.
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,726 posts, read 24,718,587 times
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Quote:
The agency is looking for federal funds to extend its blue line, by adding five stops, as far east as Stonecrest Mall.

Benjamin Limmer, MARTA’s assistant general manager, said on average it costs $250 million per mile for heavy rail.

“It’s more feasible to extend the system that we already have to serve south DeKalb County as opposed to switch technologies to a light rail system,” Limmer said.

He said light rail typically ranges from $75 to $150 million per mile.

Joseph Hacker, a professor at Georgia State in the Department of Public Management, said any public transit project needs to reach a large enough population center to justify expansion.

“I don’t know that Stonecrest has the density to support it,” he said. “I don’t know that it has that magnitude that really makes transit successful.”

Hacker said MARTA should run buses along the proposed route first to get a read on the demand for extending the train line.

But Limmer said the agency has no current plans to add buses although that is something it could do to establish a market.

A draft of the plan is due to the Federal Transit Administration by next spring. The transit authority will apply for federal funds to cover up to half the cost of the rail expansion project.
https://www.wabe.org/marta-looks-fed...onecrest-mall/
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Old 11-13-2017, 12:53 PM
bu2
 
23,874 posts, read 14,666,291 times
Reputation: 12658
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Some good comments by both of them.
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:37 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 3,726,668 times
Reputation: 1967
Blah blah blah. How many times have we heard this?
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Old 11-13-2017, 02:38 PM
 
4,010 posts, read 3,726,668 times
Reputation: 1967
What about the CC?
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Old 11-13-2017, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Seattle, WA
9,830 posts, read 7,182,353 times
Reputation: 7772
They need to turn every square foot of Kensington, Indian Creek, and the 5 new stations, into high density, mixed-use TOD, with all the MARTA commuter parking in decks, wrapped and with apartments above. Condos, townhomes, offices, hotels, apartments, and lots of retail. With some of the stations (like Stonecrest especially), even having 10+ story towers included.

And then also re-zone parcels adjacent to the stations into high density as well. And have a lot of area redevelopment integrated in with the construction.

THEN the heavy rail extension would make sense.
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