Residents push back against widening of Hwy 20 to six lanes in Cherokee and Forsyth counties (Atlanta: 2015, buying)

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by DJDeadParrot

I can count on one hand the number of times I've made that drive in either direction in the 18 years I've lived in Georgia. That said, even I can see the need to make improvements.

My dad and I drove that stretch of 20 and even the farther north stretch of 369 over to 400. This was over 10 years ago and we both were stunned at the amount of development out there. And it's only going to increase.

Originally Posted by Mossberg

Part of the reason this project is needed in the first place is because people shot down the Northern Arc project that would have taken traffic off of SR-20. They claimed it would bring more traffic and sprawl.

Well, the highway was never built, and the traffic and sprawl came ANYWAY!

I remember some 15 years ago perusing the AJC comments (those were the days) and seeing all the backlash against the Norther Arc with a few saying to "just widen 20". Well now even that's under attack.

[primaltech]

Even with 6 lanes all the way through, because of all the stoplights and the congestion near Mall of GA, it's still not going to be that great of an alternate truck route relieving I-285, which is what the Northern Arc would have been.

They need to do this project, and then also put a truck bypass highway somewhere up around Hwy 53, preferably as a limited access.

[fourthwarden]

Just a reminder, that more roads mean more traffic:

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Just a reminder, that more roads mean more traffic:

Dumb question but why doesn't "induced demand" work with public transit?

You see trains and buses running around all the time that are WAY below capacity, but that doesn't seem to increase ridership.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Just a reminder, that more roads mean more traffic:

That's great, but let's put aside theory for one second. If we could take a large chunk of the interstate freight traffic off of I-285 and the sections of our interstates closest to Atlanta and the immediate north suburbs, then that would free up that existing road space for cars, reducing congestion/adding capacity. Not new cars, but the cars that already regularly are using it.

285 is no longer the Atlanta bypass that it originally was. It goes right through some of the most populated and some of the most economically active areas of the metro.

50 years later, we need a new bypass to take long-distance trucks off the top end. Maybe put special anti-sprawl rules attached to it, such as trucks-only, or toll-only, or minimal local exits, etc.

[cqholt]

Expand it to 6 lanes and have GRTA run buses in between Canton P&R lot and Cumming P&R lot.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

That's great, but let's put aside theory for one second. If we could take a large chunk of the interstate freight traffic off of I-285 and the sections of our interstates closest to Atlanta and the immediate north suburbs, then that would free up that existing road space for cars, reducing congestion/adding capacity. Not new cars, but the cars that already regularly are using it.

285 is no longer the Atlanta bypass that it originally was. It goes right through some of the most populated and some of the most economically active areas of the metro.

50 years later, we need a new bypass to take long-distance trucks off the top end. Maybe put special anti-sprawl rules attached to it, such as trucks-only, or toll-only, or minimal local exits, etc.

We will never see a new freeway built in metro Atlanta or North Georgia.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Carolina Knight

If Georgia State Route 20 through Cherokee and Forsyth counties cannot be widened to additional lanes, then the Georgia Department of Transportation should revisit the idea of a new controlled-access highway from Interstate 75 to Interstate 85 across northern Georgia. There are not many alternatives remaining to resolve the necessity.

The state definitely would build that controlled-access highway between I-75 Northwest and I-85 Northeast (The Northern Arc/East-West Highway) if they could.

But the problem for the state is that the Northern Arc concept appears to be so wildly unpopular with the public that even just openly entertaining the idea of pursuing the construction of the road again could prove to be a political disaster for whomever holds the Governor's office and controls state government.

The state's current Republican leadership is exceedingly reluctant to resurrect the Northern Arc concept, much less openly talk about it because of how the widespread unpopularity of the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc played a starring role in helping to sink former Georgia governor Roy Barnes administration and end about 130 years of Democratic Party rule back in 2002.

Georgia's current Republican rulers got a demonstration of just how politically toxic of an issue the Northern Arc/Outer Perimeter concept can be back during the 2012 T-SPLOST debacle when widespread rumors and paranoia that T-SPLOST revenues would be used to resurrect the unpopular highway played a starring role in the referendum's landslide defeat.

Even with the current extremely severely weakened state of the Democratic Party, both in Georgia and nationally, Georgia Republicans (who continue to be paranoid about demographics that appear to be rapidly changing the state's electorate in favor of the Democrats) don't want to risk losing their iron-grip on the state's political machinery by pushing a road project in the Northern Arc that has proved to be so wildly unpopular with voters on multiple occasions.

To the Georgia GOP, the risk of defeat in a statewide race just is not worth pushing an extremely unpopular road project that likely ultimately would be stopped anyway. To them, the pushing of such a proposal has much more downside than any upside that might exist.

Originally Posted by Mossberg

People can be very short-sighted. Lessons of the past will show you that it's almost always cheaper and easier to plan for future capacity now with 6 lanes than it is to do 4 lanes now and expand to 6 once the area inevitably chokes again with traffic.

Part of the reason this project is needed in the first place is because people shot down the Northern Arc project that would have taken traffic off of SR-20. They claimed it would bring more traffic and sprawl.

Well, the highway was never built, and the traffic and sprawl came ANYWAY!

This is why residents cannot always be trusted to do what's best for the long term growth of a region. Most have tunnel vision and never see the light at the end of it.

That is an excellent point that the traffic and sprawl came anyway, even though the Northern Arc was shot down largely on the argument that the road would bring more traffic and sprawl.

Heck, while the opposition to the Northern Arc was arguing that the road would bring more traffic and sprawl to the area where it was proposed to be built, the governments of Forsyth and Cherokee counties were busy (intentionally) permitting new traffic-generating development (sprawl) directly in the path of the proposed road.

The problem with the current proposal to widen GA 20 to six-plus lanes between Canton and Cumming is that the proposed road appears to take out too many businesses and too much tax-generating commercial property, something that is certain to get much pushback from not only local residents but also from the governments of Cherokee and (especially) Forsyth counties.

But on the other hand I also understand why GDOT might would propose such a maximized widening of GA 20 between Canton and Cumming....Because of the large amount of truck traffic that seems to use the road, both in terms of being a cut-across between Interstates 75 Northwest and 85 Northeast without having to use the severely-congested Top End of the I-285 Perimeter....And because of the truck traffic-generating development along the GA 20 roadway between Interstates 75 NW and 85 NE, particularly in some areas near Canton (Canton Marketplace shopping center near the I-575 junction), Cumming (the large cluster of retail development at the junction of GA 20 and GA 400) and Buford (the Mall of Georgia area).

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by biscuit_head

That's the risk folks take when they move to a subdivision that is built in those areas, so why do they act brand new and surprised when others want to move to the area?

My mom is a perfect example of this. She bought a house in an unfinished, in-progress neighborhood with empty lots around her. Then she got all upset when they started building houses on those lots. And now she's upset that they're building attractions near her. When I asked her what she thought was going to happen when buying a house in a neighborhood under co striction, her response was essentially "well, I don't know, but I didn't think they'd be building right by us!"

Originally Posted by cqholt

We will never see a new freeway built in metro Atlanta or North Georgia.

Probably true.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fieldm

If they want to sit in traffic let them

People who go to these meetings feel the strongest and tend to be against whatever is proposed.

So you can't really tell if they represent a solid majority or merely a small minority.