Senate bill could close off passenger rail service to Cobb and beyond (Atlanta: construction, live)

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Wait... just because there's nothing concrete right now, makes it okay to shut out options for 50 years?

I didn't say that.

I'm saying that the other side of this equation needs to do its part- present the official plan for commuter rail.

Put up or shut up. Let's get the conversation started with commuter rail. Not just some vague possibility.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Wait... just because there's nothing concrete right now, makes it okay to shut out options for 50 years?

And there have been studies of Atlanta-Chattanooga passenger rail. I think it was even discussed on here at one point.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by bu2

And there have been studies of Atlanta-Chattanooga passenger rail.

Yeah, which they are not planning to use the freight rail corridor for. They are planning on building an all new high speed passenger railway along I-75, which would stop only a handful of times, including at Town Center and the Galleria, then it would go underground once ITP, stopping once in Downtown, and then at the airport.

I think that would be super dang sweet, especially if it included tons of commuter parking at the Galleria.

Of course, I'm equally open to a commuter rail solution along the freight rail lines, that would stop in the historic downtowns.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I didn't say that.

I'm saying that the other side of this equation needs to do its part- present the official plan for commuter rail.

Put up or shut up. Let's get the conversation started with commuter rail. Not just some vague possibility.

I agree, we should put up, but that doesn't me we should close off our options to use the corridor for BOTH passenger rail AND other freight companies for 50 years, earning far below the market rate of the line's worth in the process, just because we aren't doing so currently.

Cutting off your foot because you got a splinter just because you don't currently have a pair of tweezers is not a good way to manage avaiable resources.

[Born 2 Roll]

Republican Georgia state Senator Lindsey Tippins of Cobb County wrote an op-ed piece in Thursday's Marietta Daily Journal that cautions state officials not to write off the possibility of using a state-owned rail line between Atlanta and Chattanooga for commuter or passenger rail.

Legislation has passed both chambers authorizing the state to negotiate a 50-year lease of the line with CSX. Writes Tippins:

There is in excess of 30 miles of track from downtown Atlanta to the northern part of Cobb County. With the current cost of heavy rail being in excess of $100 million a mile, the estimate to build a line from downtown through Cobb would exceed $3 billion. There are another 100 miles of track north of Cobb not even figured in that equation.
*
Other benefits to joint usage of this right of way include more availability of land for commuter parking adjacent to the line than along the I-75/US41 corridor. Time is also an issue. If a program started today to acquire right of way, acquire federal environmental permits and design, construct and put a comparable rail line in use, it would take in excess of 15 years before the first commuter would ride, best case scenario.
*
Let me be clear, I’m not saying this is THE SOLUTION. I am saying this is a possible option that in all probability would offer a much quicker and more cost-effective alternative for partially relieving our traffic congestion.

"LINDSEY TIPPINS: State must not trade away opportunity to solve traffic congestion" (Marietta Daily Journal)
LINDSEY TIPPINS: State must not trade away opportunity to solve traffic congestion | Columnists | mdjonline.com

One can tell just how bad traffic congestion has gotten when Cobb County Republicans (who traditionally have been highly averse to the concept of implementing rail transit through the county) are saying that the state needs to have the ability to implement rail transit connecting Cobb and Atlanta along the W&A Railroad right-of-way.

Also, here is a previous article in the Marietta Daily Journal that inspired State Senator Tippins' op-ed piece the following day...

"CHUGGING ALONG...A path forward for rail transit in Cobb survives" (Marietta Daily Journal)
A path forward for rail transit in Cobb survives | News | mdjonline.com

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

"LINDSEY TIPPINS: State must not trade away opportunity to solve traffic congestion" (Marietta Daily Journal)
LINDSEY TIPPINS: State must not trade away opportunity to solve traffic congestion | Columnists | mdjonline.com

ahhhh thank you Reader Mode.

I''m glad to see somebody is keeping an eye out. This guy gets it.

...the rail line bisects four of Cobb’s six cities. It is also within one-half mile of the Braves/Galleria/Cumberland area, the WellStar Kennestone medical complex and is roughly within a mile of both campuses of Kennesaw State University. It also connects in Marietta to the Northeast Georgia Railroad, which runs north through Canton, Jasper, Ellijay and Blue Ridge. This may offer possibilities of future regional transportation solutions.

If they aren't dumb about it and mindlessly sign away rights this session, I think this will become a significant factor in the state's upcoming transportation effort. Considering the state owns the ROW and they like Cobb, I could see this opportunity pushing the state's transportation effort towards rail instead of a bus exclusive system

[primaltech]

So let's say there was commuter rail on the Western & Atlantic railroad, between Atlanta and Chattanooga.

How exactly would they do that? I mean technically speaking, for any of the train geeks around here.

Would they have to lay down new track? Most of the line only has one track, including the section near me thru Vinings and Cumberland. So without all new tracks (and newly widened bridges, etc), you couldn't have a southbound and a northbound train running simultaneously, which would seem very necessary if it's to be a good quality service. And the new tracks would acquire purchasing and demolishing existing private properties, making it a very expensive endeavor.

And then you have the problem of freight, and all the freight that moves thru that corridor. Seems to me you'd have to either take freight off the W&A, or widen the W&A with new tracks, or possibly maybe share the space, if that's even possible. But you'd need to reduce the grade crossings and build new trains and tunnels, with all those trains going by.

All in all, it would not be that cheap, but I guess it would be still cheaper than building a new passenger rail line along I-75. And with the advantage of passing thru all the town downtowns. But I'm just curious how it all would work.

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by primaltech

So let's say there was commuter rail on the Western & Atlantic railroad, between Atlanta and Chattanooga.

How exactly would they do that? I mean technically speaking, for any of the train geeks around here.

Would they have to lay down new track? Most of the line only has one track, including the section near me thru Vinings and Cumberland. So without all new tracks (and newly widened bridges, etc), you couldn't have a southbound and a northbound train running simultaneously, which would seem very necessary if it's to be a good quality service. And the new tracks would acquire purchasing and demolishing existing private properties, making it a very expensive endeavor.

And then you have the problem of freight, and all the freight that moves thru that corridor. Seems to me you'd have to either take freight off the W&A, or widen the W&A with new tracks, or possibly maybe share the space, if that's even possible. But you'd need to reduce the grade crossings and build new trains and tunnels, with all those trains going by.

All in all, it would not be that cheap, but I guess it would be still cheaper than building a new passenger rail line along I-75. And with the advantage of passing thru all the town downtowns. But I'm just curious how it all would work.

Yes, double tracking would be a requirement, at least on any segments shared with passenger rail (Chattanooga is nice, but I'll settle for terminating somewhere between Kennesaw and Cartersville inclusive). But double tracking more than doubles existing capacity so if anything, "all that freight" would only be aided by any expansions for passenger rail. Grade crossings don't really have to be eliminated, while nice, it's not a requirement. There are plenty of grade crossings on the far busier (freight and passenger wise) Chicago Racetrack between Aurora, IL and Chicago which is triple-tracked for most of that length. Still though, this option is cheaper as you say than all-new rail, and that goes for HRT transit as well.

[fourthwarden]

In a first, Cobb County shifts on commuter rail

The history of metro Atlanta inched forward late Tuesday night. For the first time, the Cobb County Commission formally addressed the issue of commuter rail without use of the words “hell” and “no.”

On a 5-0 vote, commissioners offered up a definite maybe.

But tectonic plates can shake the world by moving only a few centimeters, a fact recognized within the state Capitol. The Legislature, down to its last allotted hours in this year’s session, is poised to make two moves Thursday. Both are designed to help Cobb — and Gwinnett County, too — get to an eventual yes.

The resolution adopted by the Cobb commission urges forces in the state Capitol to “maintain control” of the rail line, “given the long-range interests in exploring passenger rail connectivity.”

The cost of bringing MARTA rail into Cobb could run as high as $200 million a mile, and would churn up real estate its entire length, Ott argued. “We’ve got a railroad right-of-way out there that goes from Atlanta to Chattanooga. It hits most of the major cities in Cobb and connects the employment areas,” Ott said. “Part of the fear of MARTA has been the disruption. This rail line we’re talking about – this area was built around it.”

Commuter rail remains a sensitive topic in Cobb.

“We want to keep all of our options open. What those options are, right now, it’s up to the board to decide,” Boyce said. That decision would then have to be ratified with a countywide referendum.

[primaltech]

If this commuter rail line happens, it could be potentially be even better than any of the MARTA heavy rail lines. I'd say.

Because, it runs through the heart of 3 or 4 dense city downtowns in Cobb, so that's 3 or 4 Decatur Stations- plus there'd obviously be a stop at Cumberland, which would be comparable to Dunwoody Station, plus there'd likely be a stop on Barrett Pkwy which would probably resemble North Springs.

MARTA has some good stations, but it also has a lot of ones with nothing around it, where no one ever goes. This line would not have that problem.

Marietta Station in particular would be... there would be no way that that wouldn't be a mega-success in every way. Right at the square... there'd likely be almost as many visitors from Atlanta to Marietta as from Marietta to Atlanta.

We need this in Cobb. Sooner rather than later, please.