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Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas
You know, I'm a Bernie supporter but this is real telling. There is alternative history where Bernie could have won the election if it weren't for the Clinton's meddling. This is a pipe dream.
Bernie Sanders' message is not that popular with the majority of the black audience unless it is hone into the specifics that relates to the masses. Vincent Fort was not able to do that because he threw shade high and low at the black establishment. He then said he would undermine them while saying he was a Sanders supported candidate. That's a no-go.
You know, I'm a Bernie supporter but this is real telling. There is alternative history where Bernie could have won the election if it weren't for the Clinton's meddling. This is a pipe dream.
Unlikely. He's too old. Nowadays I think that impacts a candidates chance of winning regardless of how good they are. The ceiling I think is about 72-73. After that I thihk people are highly wary of electing anyone older. Sanders was also not doing very well with the black vote so I'm not so sure how much better than Hillary he would have fared to be honest. I thihk he may have had a shot at taking PA and FL but he probably would have lost VA and MN to cancel that out
Although it seems that a part of Norwood's problems are demographics, I think her main problem is that she is just not a good politician. In the COA, you absolutely do not want the Cliff-version summary of the race to be Trump v NotTrump. Not coming out and distancing herself early and unequivocally from Trump was just plain stupid for a candidate for mayor of ATL. All of the other candidates reflexively threw Trump under the bus. It was not a trick question.
Now KLB can focus exclusively on wooing non-Black voters (or in the alternative, depressing white turnout) while at the same time getting a high Black voter turn out just by being NotTrump.
I do not live in the COA and don't follow politics here closely. I may be naive, but I do not think the race issue is as important to the majority of voters here as it may seem on the surface. I think a good white candidate would be able to win in Atlanta easily and get a substantial percentage of the black vote. The problem I see with the white candidates I've noticed is that they either aren't comfortable enough or aren't skilled enough to reach out to black voters effectively. That is an advantage to black candidates hooked in to the corrupt political machine. I don't think black voters support corruption as much as they feel they don't have any other good options. Even when not in the majority, black voters will remain a huge voting block here. No candidate for mayor is going to be able to win without peeling off at least a respectable percentage of the black voting block.
A Bill Clinton-type candidate(with or without the sleaze) would win the mayor's race here easily. But what I see is that most politicians don't want to get out of their comfort zone. Or maybe it's just a reality of how political campaigns must operate to survive(money/connections over message).
I'm not sure I agree. It seems that black voters will almost always go for the viable black candidate. 2008 Democratic primary is a great example. Hillary Clinton had a great connection to black voters, one she and her husband spent years cultivating. Still, she usually lost the black vote 95-5 Or worse. As soon as it was Hillary v Bernie, her black voters returned and she was getting 85% or more, clearly proving there was never a "dislike" of her, but that they preferred the black candidate.
We will see how it goes, but I can almost guarantee the crossover white voter support for Bottoms will be MUCH higher than percent of black voters voting for Norwood, especially with all of the articles and social media posts about keeping Atlanta's "black mecca" status by keeping the mayor black.
I'm not sure I agree. It seems that black voters will almost always go for the viable black candidate. 2008 Democratic primary is a great example. Hillary Clinton had a great connection to black voters, one she and her husband spent years cultivating. Still, she usually lost the black vote 95-5 Or worse. As soon as it was Hillary v Bernie, her black voters returned and she was getting 85% or more, clearly proving there was never a "dislike" of her, but that they preferred the black candidate.
We will see how it goes, but I can almost guarantee the crossover white voter support for Bottoms will be MUCH higher than percent of black voters voting for Norwood, especially with all of the articles and social media posts about keeping Atlanta's "black mecca" status by keeping the mayor black.
The Clinton family doesn't have the glowing rep in the Black community that you think it does, especially those of us under 40. We remember "super predators brought to heel" and we saw what they did in Haiti, sorry bro but you have no idea what you're talking about. Just because Bill pulled out the Sax on Arsenio doesn't make him our friend, a good bit of us saw thru that patronizing bullsh***.
It's hilarious how some of you are so sure in what you think Black people think but you clearly don't know any in your day to day lives. A quick conversation would quickly show how divisive they are in our community.
I'm not sure I agree. It seems that black voters will almost always go for the viable black candidate. 2008 Democratic primary is a great example. Hillary Clinton had a great connection to black voters, one she and her husband spent years cultivating. Still, she usually lost the black vote 95-5 Or worse. As soon as it was Hillary v Bernie, her black voters returned and she was getting 85% or more, clearly proving there was never a "dislike" of her, but that they preferred the black candidate.
We will see how it goes, but I can almost guarantee the crossover white voter support for Bottoms will be MUCH higher than percent of black voters voting for Norwood, especially with all of the articles and social media posts about keeping Atlanta's "black mecca" status by keeping the mayor black.
Yes I agree that 2008 is a great example and it actually proves my point. Black voters flocked to Barack Obama, but I think it's unfair to say that was just because of race. Pres Obama was an unusually charismatic candidate and attracted people of all races. He even got a fair number of white Republicans to vote for him. Also remember that early on, Pres Obama was accused of not "being black enough."
Also, no one can really argue that HRC is a great politician or very charismatic. She couldn't even carry white women in the 2016 Pres race, the majority of whom voted for Trump. So I don't think the fact that black voters baled on her in 2008 really says much about their propensity to vote mostly based on a candidates race.
Also look at what happened to folks like Al Sharpton, Michael Steele, Herman Cain, etc. The GOP has been accused of putting up black candidates as way to disrupt Democratic primaries. However, it's been shown time and time again that black people don't vote for black politicians just because they are black.
Last edited by CaliDreaming01; 11-08-2017 at 02:59 PM..
Reason: adding stuff about HRC
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,990,056 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23
Bernie Sanders' message is not that popular with the majority of the black audience unless it is hone into the specifics that relates to the masses. Vincent Fort was not able to do that because he threw shade high and low at the black establishment. He then said he would undermine them while saying he was a Sanders supported candidate. That's a no-go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BELMO45
Unlikely. He's too old. Nowadays I think that impacts a candidates chance of winning regardless of how good they are. The ceiling I think is about 72-73. After that I thihk people are highly wary of electing anyone older. Sanders was also not doing very well with the black vote so I'm not so sure how much better than Hillary he would have fared to be honest. I thihk he may have had a shot at taking PA and FL but he probably would have lost VA and MN to cancel that out
Yup to both.
I remember during the primaries, whilst talking to some fellow Bernie supporters about his prospects, bringing up his Black problem. As great as his ideas were, he did almost nothing to tailor that message to a Black audience. By the time he figured out that it was too late and seemed forced. That's why Clinton walloped him in the Southern states.
Sadly, a lot of those same friends said I wasn't thinking clearly about it and thought i was off base. They didn't understand the simple method that gets the Black electorate to vote for you: Black people like people who like them. It's so odd to me how many people in politics don't understand this.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,990,056 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliDreaming01
Yes I agree that 2008 is a great example and it actually proves my point. Black voters flocked to Barack Obama, but I think it's unfair to say that was just because of race. Pres Obama was an unusually charismatic candidate and attracted people of all races. He even got a fair number of white Republicans to vote for him. Also remember that early on, Pres Obama was accused of not "being black enough."
Also, no one can really argue that HRC is a great politician or very charismatic. She couldn't even carry white women in the 2016 Pres race, the majority of whom voted for Trump. So I don't think the fact that black voters baled on her in 2008 really says much about their propensity to vote mostly based on a candidates race.
Also look at what happened to folks like Al Sharpton, Michael Steele, Herman Cain, etc. The GOP has been accused of putting up black candidates as way to disrupt Democratic primaries. However, it's been shown time and time again that black people don't vote for black politicians just because they are black.
See my post above and totally agree. During the primaries, Clinton won the Black vote mainly because Black people still love her husband who was similarly as charismatic as Obama. After that though she did nothing to cash in on that good will. This is also something that John Kerry and Al Gore didn't do a good job at either.
There is a lesson here to be learned by the Democratic Party.
Yes I agree that 2008 is a great example and it actually proves my point. Black voters flocked to Barack Obama, but I think it's unfair to say that was just because of race. Pres Obama was an unusually charismatic candidate and attracted people of all races. He even got a fair number of white Republicans to vote for him. Also remember that early on, Pres Obama was accused of not "being black enough."
Also, no one can really argue that HRC is a great politician or very charismatic. She couldn't even carry white women in the 2016 Pres race, the majority of whom voted for Trump. So I don't think the fact that black voters baled on her in 2008 really says much about their propensity to vote mostly based on a candidates race.
Also look at what happened to folks like Al Sharpton, Michael Steele, Herman Cain, etc. The GOP has been accused of putting up black candidates as way to disrupt Democratic primaries. However, it's been shown time and time again that black people don't vote for black politicians just because they are black.
I think Obama was unique, not just because of his personal qualities, but because he was the first who was viewed as having a serious chance.
I saw a chart once that showed that Black family income went up about 50% faster than the average during the Clinton years. I think it doubled in 8 years. It made it clear why they were indeed very popular among the Black community. But then Blacks under 40 were only 15 when Bill Clinton entered office, so maybe that isn't continuing in the next generation. They didn't experience the change as a head of household.
Yes I agree that 2008 is a great example and it actually proves my point. Black voters flocked to Barack Obama, but I think it's unfair to say that was just because of race. Pres Obama was an unusually charismatic candidate and attracted people of all races. He even got a fair number of white Republicans to vote for him. Also remember that early on, Pres Obama was accused of not "being black enough."
Also, no one can really argue that HRC is a great politician or very charismatic. She couldn't even carry white women in the 2016 Pres race, the majority of whom voted for Trump. So I don't think the fact that black voters baled on her in 2008 really says much about their propensity to vote mostly based on a candidates race.
Also look at what happened to folks like Al Sharpton, Michael Steele, Herman Cain, etc. The GOP has been accused of putting up black candidates as way to disrupt Democratic primaries. However, it's been shown time and time again that black people don't vote for black politicians just because they are black.
Yeah I agree. There are a percentage of blacks who will do that but there are also a percentage of women who will vote for a woman because she's a woman and I know Jewish folks who voted for Bernie and Gore in 2000 because his running mate was Jewish. It's generally the under 30s who fall victim to that sort of stuff
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