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Old 04-04-2017, 08:34 AM
 
693 posts, read 260,679 times
Reputation: 424

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron H View Post
This is what I'll never understand about leftists. Yes, the Trump loyalists are upfront about depriving the poor and sick of health care. They're upfront about abolishing the EPA and rolling back regulations on polluters. They're upfront about repealing financial regulations and letting Wall Street privatize profits and socialize costs. They're upfront about mass discrimination against Muslims, gays, and all other outgroups that catch their attention, and they're upfront about deportation forces that tear families apart. They're upfront about seating right-wing justices who will eventually overturn Roe v. Wade. They're upfront about burning down the Department of Education and turning public schools over to creationists on local school boards throughout the Bible Belt. They're upfront about increasing military spending and slashing social spending while tearing up the rules of engagement that protect civilians in warzones. They're upfront about responding to third-world levels of income and wealth inequality in this country by slashing taxes for the rich (again). They're upfront about their view of American cities as crime-ridden hellholes where the big problem is that not enough young brown men are incarcerated in privatized prisons. They're upfront about making it as difficult as possible for brown people to vote.

But leftists congratulate them for being "upfront" about their single-minded determination to turn the entire country into Mississippi. Meanwhile, they despise moderate Democrats for their moderation, even though moderate Democrats are on their side on all those issues, because they're not far enough over on their side.

"At least the Trumpkins disagree with me about everything, as much as it's possible to disagree. I just can't stand these centrist Democrats who agree with me about almost everything but disagree with me, marginally, about a few things, or about immediate priorities, or about political tactics!"

"At least." Meaning, you prefer your enemies and your self-righteous outrage to allies that don't meet your ideological purity test. You get the politics and the society you deserve.
Here is the problem with pollution. Anything we do to stop pollution isn't going to make even a fraction of a difference because of places like China and India who are polluting the hell out of the atmosphere and do not care. Until India and China are willing to abide by the same rules we do it is pointless. Anything we do to curtail it is being overturned by China and India.

 
Old 04-04-2017, 09:33 AM
 
Location: East side - Metro ATL
1,325 posts, read 2,115,328 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
Here is the problem with pollution. Anything we do to stop pollution isn't going to make even a fraction of a difference because of places like China and India who are polluting the hell out of the atmosphere and do not care. Until India and China are willing to abide by the same rules we do it is pointless. Anything we do to curtail it is being overturned by China and India.
China is already committed to spending $360 billion dollars on renewable energy to curb green house gases (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/w...ment.html?_r=0). They are moving forward and we are moving backwards. How is moving backwards the answer? They are leaving us in the dust while creating 13 million jobs and our short-sighted government is going backwards. The future is in renewable energy not the same old BS (Oil, and coal).

Trevor Noah explains it best:
“If Donald Trump was really trying to make America great again, it would be all innovation and progress, because moving the world forward is what America has always been about,” the host said. “Think about it: America went from candles to the light bulb, right? America went from covered wagons to airplanes. Unemployed girls to Instagram models. The point is, progress, and now you want to go back to coal?” (€˜Daily Show€™s€™ Trevor Noah: Trump €˜Using€™ Coal Miners as €˜Political Pawns€™ - The Daily Beast).

Last edited by BeyondInfinity; 04-04-2017 at 09:44 AM..
 
Old 04-04-2017, 09:50 AM
 
693 posts, read 260,679 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeyondInfinity View Post
China is already committed to spending $360 billion dollars on renewable energy to curb green house gases (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/05/w...ment.html?_r=0). They are moving forward and we are moving backwards. How is moving backwards the answer? They are leaving us in the dust while creating 13 million jobs and our short-sighted government is going backwards. The future is in renewable energy not the same old BS (Oil, and coal).

Trevor Noah explains it best:
If Donald Trump was really trying to make America great again, it would be all innovation and progress, because moving the world forward is what America has always been about, the host said. Think about it: America went from candles to the light bulb, right? America went from covered wagons to airplanes. Unemployed girls to Instagram models. The point is, progress, and now you want to go back to coal? (‘Daily Show’s’ Trevor Noah: Trump ‘Using’ Coal Miners as ‘Political Pawns’ - The Daily Beast).
China hasn't started to do anything. I can 'commit' to not eating a hamburger this week. Doesn't mean I am going to follow through. China and India pollute so much no policy or change we make is going to help. Anything we do is being reversed by them.
 
Old 04-04-2017, 10:07 AM
 
Location: East side - Metro ATL
1,325 posts, read 2,115,328 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
China hasn't started to do anything. I can 'commit' to not eating a hamburger this week. Doesn't mean I am going to follow through. China and India pollute so much no policy or change we make is going to help. Anything we do is being reversed by them.
You are missing the point. At least they are committed to moving forward while our incompetent Government is committed to moving backwards.

This is regarding China surpassing the U.S.A in Wind Power (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-another-23-gw).
 
Old 04-04-2017, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Home of the Braves
1,164 posts, read 925,877 times
Reputation: 1148
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post
Here is the problem with pollution. Anything we do to stop pollution isn't going to make even a fraction of a difference because of places like China and India who are polluting the hell out of the atmosphere and do not care. Until India and China are willing to abide by the same rules we do it is pointless. Anything we do to curtail it is being overturned by China and India.
That's the old argument against taking any domestic action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Both China and India are making significant strides. We should lead by example and push them to do more.

http://climateactiontracker.org/countries/china.html [you can check India and the U.S. on the same site]

But my comments weren't limited to pollution that affects the whole planet. The EPA and environmental regulations more broadly have been amazingly successful in cleaning up our air and water, right here. We've cleaned up ozone, lead, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur dioxide, mercury, DDT, CFCs -- the list goes on. We've cleaned up superfund sites and brownfields. Our rivers rarely catch fire these days.

Sometimes when I'm having these discussions I don't know if the people I'm talking to are just young and don't remember what it used to be like or if we just have a case of collective amnesia. One of the things that's most dispiriting about populist and "anti-establishment" politics on both the left and the right is that, while we don't exactly have a perfect track record over the past several decades, we don't seem willing to give ourselves any credit for what we've actually done well, for our actual accomplishments and real progress.

And it's not just about the environment -- it goes to a lot of issues. America took the lead in building these, actually, really miraculous post-war institutions that have given us 70 years without a great-power war, we rebuilt our former enemies and started trading even with our geopolitical rivals and we reduced the percentage of the global population living in extreme poverty from 37% to less than 10% since 1990. Nevertheless, the left hates NATO, the right hates the UN and has apparently joined the left in hating NATO, and both sides hate trade. Same goes for civil rights and liberties -- actually, same goes for just about everything.

Too many people, in my opinion, either don't know, don't care, or have just forgotten and are all too ready to just burn it all down. We should definitely remember our ****ups and failures, too, but we shouldn't only remember our ****ups and failures. We've done some good ****, too: Republicans and Democrats, corporations and bureaucrats, activists and politicians. And plenty of ordinary people. Everyone's so angry and one reason, I think, is we've forgotten all the good ****.
 
Old 04-04-2017, 12:37 PM
 
643 posts, read 310,934 times
Reputation: 404
Has Ossoff made any bold "I like the environment" policy statements to go along with his groundbreaking "ISIS is bad" and "Fraud isn't good" stances?
 
Old 04-04-2017, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Vinings
5,940 posts, read 2,906,632 times
Reputation: 3178
I think the official Democratic Party platform plank about the environment and climate change should just read simply, "There are no jobs on a dead planet."

Not that that would still even really make the other side give a crap about any concern that's not 2 inches immediately in front of them or about any consequence more than 2 years into the future.
 
Old 04-04-2017, 01:37 PM
 
131 posts, read 46,521 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forhall View Post
Experience isn't the winning argument for me. I don't care how much experience someone has if they are fighting for more discrimination, against Healthcare access, or for using our tax dollars to expand the military instead of on domestic programs.

I don't mindlessly believe in any one party like so many others. I voted for Romney in 2012 because I figured he could fix Obamacare and he was a very liberal republican. The GOP has gone insane since then so yes, I lean more Democrat now, but I'm smart enough to step back and vote on issues. Amazed at how many people will justify anything their own party does because they treat it like some "us vs them" tribal warfare instead of just thinking for themselves. It's particularly fascinating when I see poor, white Republican voters actively voting for politicians who campaign on removing their Health insurance and union rights.

************
The GOP has gone insane? The democrats are insane (filibustering just because? Makes no sense. They act like spoiled children who can't accept things are going to change). I actually support our military b/c without it we are vunerable to attacks. Domestic programs? Like what? The ones where my tax money pays for people not to work? Or an extension of medicaid and more handouts? When does it stop? When the tax rate is 50%? I find it ironic that most of my democratic friends use the private school system, send their kids to the best schools, yet they are all for "diversity" and public education. Your party welcomes people illegally into this country yet who pays for their healthcare? Education? Food? I have no issues w/people coming to this country legally but illegally is wrong. When I watch the news it seems the democratic party has made it "us vs them" and if we disagree with these viewpoints we are attacked.


In theory, democratic nominees love to say they are going to help yet most of them live the life of the 1% (Pelosi, Clinton, Obama). This 30 year old knows nothing - he is simply running in an election and hopes to win because people are angry and think he can make waves and change things. It's obvious that politics don't work that way. We have a president who can't even get executive orders working b/c Obama appointed judges seem to think they have jurisdiction over all of the US.


I do not care who you vote for, but don't criticize my thinking for whom I choose to vote. In summary, when I meet an actual democrat who lives the way they preach maybe I will change my mind but I have yet to meet one who is not hypocritical.
 
Old 04-04-2017, 01:41 PM
 
131 posts, read 46,521 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOinGA View Post
There are five Democrats in the race. Ossoff is not the default candidate because he is a Dem. There are other choices. At least Ossoff has studied foreign affairs, has government experience and has demonstrated a commitment to public policy, which is more than we can say for the new de facto Secretary of State, Jared Kushner.


So the qualifications are to study foreign affairs? Ossoff doesn't even reside in the 6th district. It is clear that the democrats will elect ANYONE as long as it is not a Republican. God help us all.
 
Old 04-04-2017, 02:31 PM
 
Location: East side - Metro ATL
1,325 posts, read 2,115,328 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanmichael View Post
************
The GOP has gone insane? The democrats are insane (filibustering just because? Makes no sense. They act like spoiled children who can't accept things are going to change). I actually support our military b/c without it we are vunerable to attacks. Domestic programs? Like what? The ones where my tax money pays for people not to work? Or an extension of medicaid and more handouts? When does it stop? When the tax rate is 50%? I find it ironic that most of my democratic friends use the private school system, send their kids to the best schools, yet they are all for "diversity" and public education. Your party welcomes people illegally into this country yet who pays for their healthcare? Education? Food? I have no issues w/people coming to this country legally but illegally is wrong. When I watch the news it seems the democratic party has made it "us vs them" and if we disagree with these viewpoints we are attacked.


In theory, democratic nominees love to say they are going to help yet most of them live the life of the 1% (Pelosi, Clinton, Obama). This 30 year old knows nothing - he is simply running in an election and hopes to win because people are angry and think he can make waves and change things. It's obvious that politics don't work that way. We have a president who can't even get executive orders working b/c Obama appointed judges seem to think they have jurisdiction over all of the US.


I do not care who you vote for, but don't criticize my thinking for whom I choose to vote. In summary, when I meet an actual democrat who lives the way they preach maybe I will change my mind but I have yet to meet one who is not hypocritical.
It's funny how how people seem to forget how the Repubs treated Obama and now they expect a "walk in the park". (Reid Congratulates GOP For Eight Years Obstructing The First Black President | The Huffington Post) Enough said........
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