New interchanges, widening are concerns with proposed managed lanes projects on I-285 and GA 400 (Atlanta: neighborhood, closing)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by MattCW

So because MARTA goes nowhere, we shouldn't make it go somewhere??? That is some seriously twisted logic!

It doesn't serve a large number of jobs in the area. So managed lanes serve a larger number of potential users. They can get anywhere. Running it out to Alpharetta is overwhelmingly a commuter line. It doesn't significantly increase the number of jobs MARTA serves. That is the issue with any line OTP.

People just don't understand what rail does well. Serving low density residential areas 30 miles from downtown is not exactly its strong suit.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

Most Metros do not have an outer perimeters

I notice lately that posters are using metros like Dallas and Houston as models for growth as if they are the norm, Most major metros do not have as much freeway mileage as DFW and Houston. They are also places that themselves are criticize for sprawl and over building freeways.

Places like DC and Boston metros are similar develop to metro Atlanta. Atlanta needs to focus providing greater density near employment areas and expand transit.

Just Politics is holding back Atlanta from having DC and Boston infrastructure.

Mean while it's impossible for Atlanta to have Dallas and Houston infrastructure.

And which one is better? DC and Boston infrastructure....... those are more of the direction Atlanta needs to look at.

Atlanta's metro has about 60% of the density of Houston and Dallas. It is nothing like DC and Boston.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bu2

Atlanta's metro has about 60% of the density of Houston and Dallas. It is nothing like DC and Boston.

We should design MARTA, similar to WMATA.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by chiatldal

Most Metros do not have an outer perimeters

I notice lately that posters are using metros like Dallas and Houston as models for growth as if they are the norm, Most major metros do not have as much freeway mileage as DFW and Houston. They are also places that themselves are criticize for sprawl and over building freeways.

Places like DC and Boston metros are similar develop to metro Atlanta. Atlanta needs to focus providing greater density near employment areas and expand transit.

Just Politics is holding back Atlanta from having DC and Boston infrastructure.

Mean while it's impossible for Atlanta to have Dallas and Houston infrastructure.

And which one is better? DC and Boston infrastructure....... those are more of the direction Atlanta needs to look at.

Also, looking at a map, the only cities without a 2nd perimeter among the top dozen metros are Atlanta, Philadelphia and Miami. And Miami is limited by ocean and swamp. All the others have official loops or layers of freeways that serve that purpose, DC and Phoenix don't have complete ones, but they do have a start. Houston and Dallas have significant portions of their 3rd loops built. Chicago is working on another loop, the Illiana expressway.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

We should design MARTA, similar to WMATA.

Their longest line is 32 miles, which if split in half is 16 miles. That is just over the distance from downtown to Perimeter Mall (about 14 miles).

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by bu2

It doesn't serve a large number of jobs in the area. So managed lanes serve a larger number of potential users. They can get anywhere. Running it out to Alpharetta is overwhelmingly a commuter line. It doesn't significantly increase the number of jobs MARTA serves. That is the issue with any line OTP.

People just don't understand what rail does well. Serving low density residential areas 30 miles from downtown is not exactly its strong suit.

Yes it does, DT, MT, Buckhead, and Perimeter center

MARTA already serve the biggest employment areas in the region and expanding it the other few major employment areas make sense.

but MattCW said it better

Originally Posted by MattCW

So because MARTA goes nowhere, we shouldn't make it go somewhere??? That is some seriously twisted logic!

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bu2

Their longest line is 32 miles, which if split in half is 16 miles. That is just over the distance from downtown to Perimeter Mall (about 14 miles).

In the way that in low density areas it has stations spaced further apart, but in the denser areas, employment centers; it has stations spaced closer. MARTA already has examples of this; Perimeter Center has station spacing on par with Midtown.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by bu2

Atlanta's metro has about 60% of the density of Houston and Dallas. It is nothing like DC and Boston.

My point wasn't density my point was lay out.


Group A NY, Boston, Philly, Boston, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, and Birmingham have a similar metro lay out.

Group B While LA, Miami, Chicago, Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, Seattle are grid major cities.

Houston and Dallas modeling themselves after LA and Chicago...... 80% have nearly the same home lot size, there grided and there a lot of freeways

but for Atlanta and Charlotte that makes no sense because they not a grid, and there no where to put much freeways because ariel roads and development is blocking... again very similar to DC, Boston, and etc.


it's literally impossible and pointless to model Dallas and Houston metro Atlanta is not designed like them.

While DC and Boston core are a lot denser than Atlanta yes, How ever.............. DC and Boston suburbia is very similar to Metro Atlanta suburbia, they not grided, they're suburbs have variety of yard sizes, Ariel roads, and not much more freeways then Atlanta has.

Originally Posted by bu2

Also, looking at a map, the only cities without a 2nd perimeter among the top dozen metros are Atlanta, Philadelphia and Miami. And Miami is limited by ocean and swamp. All the others have official loops or layers of freeways that serve that purpose, DC and Phoenix don't have complete ones, but they do have a start. Houston and Dallas have significant portions of their 3rd loops built. Chicago is working on another loop, the Illiana expressway.

this so wrong

There more metros with freeways here and there outside of there loop, but they have no where remotely nearly the amount of freeways DFW, Houston and LA does.

Atlanta biggest short coming is not so such it doesn't have the freeways of Dallas, Houston, and LA... it's the fact Atlanta is design like DC and Boston metros with out having DC and Boston infrastructure.


When Houston and DFW infill and increase density they would look like LA and Chicago

When Atlanta and Charlotte infill and increase density they would look like DC and Boston.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by cqholt

If we focus on giving commuters alternatives and getting them off the Top End, then it will reduce the bottleneck and invest in our residents, instead of spending billions for a road that will mostly help people passing thru.

Well making it a toll road would allow some of that investment to be recuperated and taking out of towners and trucks off 285 would still benefit locals. Don't forget about all the service workers and intraregional freighters that have no use for MARTA. I fell into this category a couple years ago. Even if I could have taken rail straight from my office to a worksite, the amount of stuff I needed to do my job as a tech would have made it impractical to take MARTA anyway. If I was lucky I was able to go and be back during midday but a few times I got stuck in afternoon rush hour getting back to the office.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

Well making it a toll road would allow some of that investment to be recuperated and taking out of towners and trucks off 285 would still benefit locals. Don't forget about all the service workers and intraregional freighters that have no use for MARTA. I fell into this category a couple years ago. Even if I could have taken rail straight from my office to a worksite, the amount of stuff I needed to do my job as a tech would have made it impractical to take MARTA anyway. If I was lucky I was able to go and be back during midday but a few times I got stuck in afternoon rush hour getting back to the office.

Tolls would never come close to the billions it would costs.
I have said it before, but we will not see another freeway built in North Georgia.