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There are still some things that I wonder about though and that is this...
I know that I-85 / I-75 are massive highways in North Atlanta (Actually besides Texas and California I don't think I've seen interstates larger than those.) The main thing that I consider though is that I am in the belief that North Atlanta has a much stronger demand (and is also much more densly populated) than Clayton and Henry County's. For example, look at I-85 between Hartsfield Jackson Intl Airport and Fairburn GA - It's 4 lanes each way but is a very smooth ride because there's not as much development down that way and it "seems" like it will remain fairly aquedate in that form for a fairly good amount of time. Now... Clayton and Henry are definately no Gwinnett and Cobb, but they're not exactly little league's either.. so I have been on the personal belief that 5 lanes could sustain those counties while keeping things bearable.. but lets say that we didn't expand it - (and don't get me wrong I do love the HOT lanes as well as I use them religiously on I-85) - The problem that I see with not expanding the highway is that.. we're not doing ANYTHING else to satisfy the need and demand for transit means to and from Atlanta.. so basically.. it's like saying this:
"We're not going to build more lanes because it will only encourage more congestion and traffic as the lanes will eventually fill up and we'll have the same problem as before. We want to DISCOURAGE traffic growth on this cooridoor"
-- Which is fine...but... they're also saying...
"We have no plans to alleviate your transportation needs by any other means."
-- You see, its like..There is no bus or train service so they're condemning people for using cars, but they're also not providing any alternatives so people are stuck, they have no other choice but to sit in traffic and cause congestion. I could see it if there was a train or efficient bus system servicing that area but right now there isn't.. so its kind of like neglecting the problem altogether.. They're saying, we're not going to make the road bigger as we don't want the additional lanes filling up.. but they have no plans for the commuters who still need to travel - as.. those people aren't going to just vanish just because the highway isn't larger.. they just sit in traffic because now they have no choice but to. So its like, in my opinion its fine not to make the highways larger, but before you condemn vehicular traffic, you have to provide them with an alternative means because right now they're saying "We don't want you to continue bringing more cars onto the road" and Henry / Clayton are saying "Okay, so how else can I get to work?" and GADOT replies with "Uhhh.."
Those are some great points questioning whether GDOT's refusal to expand the I-75 roadway to about at least five untolled general purpose lanes on each direction (10 untolled general purpose lanes total) on I-75 South through Clayton and Henry counties.
But we must keep in mind that it is not necessarily just GDOT's understandable belief in the theory of "induced demand" (more lanes generate more traffic which quickly fills up the new lanes with traffic), it is also GDOT's lack of available transportation funding that is driving their policy of basically building virtually no new untolled general purpose lanes.
GDOT has basically decided that it can get the biggest bang for its very limited transportation buck by building 1-2 new variable toll lanes instead of 2-4 new untolled general purpose lanes along stretches of OTP superhighways like I-75 South through Clayton and Henry counties.
GDOT also has to abide by the reality that it does not have the money to build as many as up to 4 new untolled general purpose lanes along stretches of OTP superhighways like I-75 South.
An agency like GDOT also has to function in a political environment in Metro Atlanta and North Georgia where the public often can be quite averse to the concept of adding new lanes to freeways and building new freeway lanes period, particularly after the 1980's massive expansion of the Atlanta region's freeway system seemed only to generate far more traffic than the expanded roadways could handle instead of alieving traffic as was originally predicted by many of the powers-that-be.
So given the public averseness to continued freeway expansion and given that there is only so much funding available to build new untolled freeway lanes (GDOT has a large and growing backlog of repairs of existing road and bridge infrastructure that it must pay for), an agency like GDOT has opted to build tolled lanes that can use variable tolls as a meter to keep the lanes flowing instead of untolled lanes that have no such mechanism to keep them from becoming gridlocked.
As for providing transportation alternatives like robust bus and train service....Providing robust bus and rail transit alternatives would be the province of the Georgia state government that manages and operates GDOT....But because of the continued averseness (if not outright opposition) by much of the public to the concept of government-funded transit outside of Fulton, DeKalb and Clayton counties, it is not likely that robust transit alternatives will be coming to that I-75 South OTP corridor anytime soon.
Metro Atlanta (particularly OTP) and North Georgia are in a unique political (and social and cultural) situation where public aversions to new road construction and new transit construction cancel out each other (along with...) and lead to relatively very few new roads and even fewer new transit lines being built and/or becoming operational.
Continued ideological opposition to government funding of transit in a deeply-conservative region of the country (the Southern U.S.) where people are deeply distrustful of government-funded transit as a legitimate mode of transportation has also played a role in severely retarding the construction of new transit infrastructure in an Atlanta region that is deeply constrained in the amount of existing multimodal transportation infrastructure it has on hand to handle an exploding population.
Best way to fix the interstates (and the metro, really), would be to have lots of HOT lanes (at least 2 in each direction on most of the main freeways), all directly connected with each other, and with lots of their own left-hand on and off ramps.
And then literally flood them with express buses, as part of a system of linked nodes.
The way I've envisioned this "node" system, the metro area would have a few dozen or so of these nodes, which are either major regional destinations, MARTA stations, or OTP commuter park&rides. Each node would link with multiple other nodes, via express bus. And those buses would travel exclusively in the HOT lane system, without needing to access regular lanes.
So, for example, you could park at the Sugarloaf Mills node, then you'd have maybe 3-5 different buses to choose from, each arriving at a high frequency (5 minutes between buses, ideally). Each one of those bus routes would be to a different node, such as Lindbergh MARTA, Dunwoody MARTA, Downtown, Cumberland, or the airport.
Kinda similar to what they try to do now with Xpress, but a lot better. More buses, higher frequency, and zero intermediate stops. Each bus is like a direct shuttle link between two points, that just loops them back and forth all day. And it avoids congestion with an all-HOT and bus-only lane routing.
While I understand and agree that Atlanta 's transit system is severely in need of work and that the general conscience in this forum is on a major push toward that.. I'm still a road geek at heart and can't help but notice a few things..anyway.. just wanted to start an opinion thread - and leave it at that..just opinions.
#1 - Yielding Left Turn Flashing Amber Arrows - 4 light stack - Introduced 2012 / 2013.
I guess I should re-iterate, they're not new.. they were out in the western states (Utah, Idaho, Oregon, Washington and a few other states all had them before they came to Georgia around 2012 - 2013) for several years before Georgia and several other southeastern states took advantage of them (Seen them in NC, SC, FL as well. I wouldn't be surprised if VA and TN had them either)
When they first arrived I was already used to them because we had them in Washington and Oregon. The cool thing about them is when opposing traffic (coming toward you) gets a green light, even when right-of-way traffic to your right thats going straight has a red light, you're still permitted to make a yielding left turn. What I hate about them though, is the same concept that GA-DOT is using them to eliminate a protected green arrow at the beginning of the traffic cycle, sometimes allowing opposing traffic to make a left turn, or sometimes allowing the light to go a complete cycle without ever giving you a protected arrow. In a few instances I have also seen them protect traffic FROM making a left turn by turning red during peak traffic hours to minimize the chances of accidents (See Highway 92 between Roswell and Woodstock for example)
#2 Diverging Diamond Interchanges
I have alot to say about these... SOMETIMES I feel like people only praise them because they're different, however; all 4 of the DDI's that Im aware of, operate completely different from one another and some have key features that really help traffic while others don't.
I personally feel that Pleasant Hill Rd is one of the worse implemented ones, while the new one that opened up on Windy Hill Rd is one of the best of their implementation (I actually see a severe improvement in traffic flow on Windy Hill) Pleasant Hill however also suffers from several other traffic issues, the main one is that there are too many MAJOR intersections that are just too close together. What would really help that area is if they condensed it to about 3 intersections with I-85 Being one of those three. For example dumping all of Gwinnett Place Traffic onto Satelite Blvd, same goes for that strip mall across the street from it. - Thats going a bit off on the deep end though. The thing I hate about the Pleasant Hill DDI is that traffic exiting the highway no longer has keep moving lanes. There just isnt enough space to implement it properly so right turn traffic has to stop. People exiting the freeway making left turns will make a left turn only to be stopped by the very next light of which is allowing opposing traffic to "cross" onto the left lanes to cross the bridge - always happens.. both lights should be synchronized to be green or to alteast allow left turning traffic to enter the bridge right before the end of the cycle so they can clear the bridge. Windy Hill takes advantage of right turn lanes that mostly allow you to keep moving - Pleasant Hill does not, you have to yield if entering the expressway, and completely stop if you're exiting it.
#3 The new HOT lanes in McDonough
There was a time I used to travel to McDonough and Hampton religiously and I just could not believe they left that section of I-75 between Stockbridge and Hampton as 3 lanes each way. Compartively all of Gwinnett is atleast 5 lanes each way at minimum.. same goes for Cobb.. Then even Nashville at the distance McDonough is from downtown, I-24 is 4 lanes each way.
Well..I wasn't thrilled that the only thing theyre doing is building toll lanes when they could add atleast two more lanes each way with the space they have out there (and before people blow up that adding more lanes is a sin, please don't forget that I-75 is a MAJOR trade route to Florida and is really the only practical way to get there for almost the entire eastern Midwest and western Northeast - thus.. I-75 isn't serving just local traffic.. alot of that is trade or commerce or vacation traffic.)
At the same time, I havent yet had a chance to go down that way and actually use them. Has been on my to do list..well..the next time I go to McDonough during the afternoon - which is probably never.
Consequences of only building our built-environment for cars and not people.
- Many flashing yellow arrows signals have a lagging left turn green arrow that is displayed only if there is still traffic waiting to turn at the end of the flashing yellow arrow.
- A diverging diamond interchange works only if cross street straight-ahead traffic is lighter than left turn traffic.
- Usually all of the signals in an area must have the same cycle length. This is usually dictated by the signal with the most traffic, combined with any green progression plan in use.
- I am opposed to all tolling except for paying off the bonds needed for new construction (after which the toll is removed). A HOT lane would be more efficient without the restriction on it. The politicians who favor tolls are trolls.
I am especially opposed to requiring a transponder to pay tolls. The old style of toll booth taking cash should always be retained.
The blinking yellow turn lights are awesome, as are the few double diamond interchanges I have used.
I also like the dedicated turn lanes that are separated by a median wherein cars don't need to stop on red before turning, they can simply keep moving and eventually just merge into traffic.
One traffic innovation that I saw in Sioux Falls and really appreciated... say you have a main thoroughfare (like Johnson Ferry or Roswell Rd in East Cobb where I live).. At off hours (say 9pm - 5am), the stoplights for the main thoroughfare turn into blinking yellow caution lights that you can simply drive through without stopping, while the cross streets stoplights turn into blinking red (like a 4 way stop). Thus, when traffic is light on the main roads, you don't have to stop at the lights for 1 car (or zero cars for that matter), you keep moving, and the side streets just need to stop and proceed with caution.
One traffic innovation that I saw in Sioux Falls and really appreciated... say you have a main thoroughfare (like Johnson Ferry or Roswell Rd in East Cobb where I live).. At off hours (say 9pm - 5am), the stoplights for the main thoroughfare turn into blinking yellow caution lights that you can simply drive through without stopping, while the cross streets stoplights turn into blinking red (like a 4 way stop). Thus, when traffic is light on the main roads, you don't have to stop at the lights for 1 car (or zero cars for that matter), you keep moving, and the side streets just need to stop and proceed with caution.
Yeah they do that a lot here in TX during non peak hours. It helps quite a bit. Miami does this as well and they reactivate if there is enough traffic sitting at the intersection. In Atlanta due to hills and curves they may be more reluctant to do this due to the potential blind spots at intersections with smaller streets and major thoroughfares which pose a visibility hazard for those stopped at the blinking red and unsure if it’s safe to cross a blinking yellow when they may not be able to see what’s coming.
The blinking yellow turn lights are awesome, as are the few double diamond interchanges I have used.
I also like the dedicated turn lanes that are separated by a median wherein cars don't need to stop on red before turning, they can simply keep moving and eventually just merge into traffic.
One traffic innovation that I saw in Sioux Falls and really appreciated... say you have a main thoroughfare (like Johnson Ferry or Roswell Rd in East Cobb where I live).. At off hours (say 9pm - 5am), the stoplights for the main thoroughfare turn into blinking yellow caution lights that you can simply drive through without stopping, while the cross streets stoplights turn into blinking red (like a 4 way stop). Thus, when traffic is light on the main roads, you don't have to stop at the lights for 1 car (or zero cars for that matter), you keep moving, and the side streets just need to stop and proceed with caution.
The same effect occurs in Gwinnett, but through different means.
Many of our lights have sensors and even on intersections on smaller streets during off peak hours the stop light continues to function, but it doesn't turn for the lightly used roads until cars trigger the sensors.
In contrast, I was just in Broward County, Florida and those lights are not linked and not making much use of sensors. As wide of those roads were, going through the lights were painful sometimes unless you were already on US 1 that seemed to always have priority 24/7.
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