Could Atlanta be in the running for second Amazon headquarters? (appointed, income)

[primaltech]

We don't have MARTA at all in a MARTA-allowed, MARTA-intended, MARTA-planned, Atlanta-directly-adjacent, partly-ITP, cosmopolitan, highly diverse county of 750,000+ people, with a major league Atlanta sports stadium, and one of the main high rise office districts... because a mere 57% barely-majority of almost entirely white voters in 1965 when MLK was still alive, in the midst of the civil rights era and a time of racism and racial strife, in a rural suburban county of ~150,000 that bears no resemblance to modern Cobb... declined interest?

That's so freaking utterly ridiculous... and it's one reason why I'm always defending the people of Cobb when we get attacked in basically every thread at this site and on Curbed and Creative Loafing and wherever else, for supposedly not wanting MARTA. I do want MARTA! Lots of other Cobb residents feel the same, clearly. Surely a majority of us are interested in improving the transportation situation and have some alternative options other than depending on heavily congested, limited freeways.

And since Cobb is an inner-suburban county now, surely a majority of us are not of some anti-Atlanta mindset, that you might now find in more outer exurban counties. Surely a majority of us want to be more connected with our usual destinations and the city and its world-class amenities that anchor us as a suburban county. And surely at least 50% of us, if not a majority at this point, are Democrats and not Republicans. (Granted, that has nothing to do with actual voter turnout numbers.) But the general point is that the stereotypes about Cobb are decreasingly and decreasingly true at all, at this point.

Even the leadership now seems more open of transit, even advocating it. The thing that seems to be lacking is organization and a clear plan or a clear specific solution. And a big problem is that MARTA's river-line-limits creates an artificial geographic wall for mass transit coverage (and tax collection funding for it) that does not need to be there.

And the stereotype about Cobb being anti-tax is really only partially true. Residents want to feel like they're getting a value for any tax. If they're shown that they could get a whole, whole lot of improvements for a 1% sales tax, I believe it could be possible to be sold here. I mean, it increases your $7 combo meal at Chick-Fil-A by 7 whole cents. Worth if it if in exchange for a comprehensive, quality commuter rail and frequent bus network, and vastly improved access to job centers in Atlanta and Central Perimeter, as well as improved access from more northern residential areas in Cobb, to Cumberland and Town Center and the Marietta Square.

[evannole]

Originally Posted by primaltech

We don't have MARTA at all in a MARTA-allowed, MARTA-intended, MARTA-planned, Atlanta-directly-adjacent, partly-ITP, cosmopolitan, highly diverse county of 750,000+ people, with a major league Atlanta sports stadium, and one of the main high rise office districts... because a mere 57% barely-majority of almost entirely white voters in 1965 when MLK was still alive, in the midst of the civil rights era and a time of racism and racial strife, in a rural suburban county of ~150,000 that bears no resemblance to modern Cobb... declined interest?

That's so freaking utterly ridiculous... and it's one reason why I'm always defending the people of Cobb when we get attacked in basically every thread at this site and on Curbed and Creative Loafing and wherever else, for supposedly not wanting MARTA. I do want MARTA! Lots of other Cobb residents feel the same, clearly. Surely a majority of us are interested in improving the transportation situation and have some alternative options other than depending on heavily congested, limited freeways.

And since Cobb is an inner-suburban county now, surely a majority of us are not of some anti-Atlanta mindset, that you might now find in more outer exurban counties. Surely a majority of us want to be more connected with our usual destinations and the city and its world-class amenities that anchor us as a suburban county. And surely at least 50% of us, if not a majority at this point, are Democrats and not Republicans. (Granted, that has nothing to do with actual voter turnout numbers.) But the general point is that the stereotypes about Cobb are decreasingly and decreasingly true at all, at this point.

Even the leadership now seems more open of transit, even advocating it. The thing that seems to be lacking is organization and a clear plan or a clear specific solution. And a big problem is that MARTA's river-line-limits creates an artificial geographic wall for mass transit coverage (and tax collection funding for it) that does not need to be there.

And the stereotype about Cobb being anti-tax is really only partially true. Residents want to feel like they're getting a value for any tax. If they're shown that they could get a whole, whole lot of improvements for a 1% sales tax, I believe it could be possible to be sold here. I mean, it increases your $7 combo meal at Chick-Fil-A by 7 whole cents. Worth if it if in exchange for a comprehensive, quality commuter rail and frequent bus network, and vastly improved access to job centers in Atlanta and Central Perimeter, as well as improved access from more northern residential areas in Cobb, to Cumberland and Town Center and the Marietta Square.

Agree. Regarding taxes, that's an especially good point. Of course there's always going to be a very vocal subset of the electorate that opposes any kind of tax increase, but they've become more and more of a fringe element in recent years. It seems that when presented with reasonable plans that have tangible benefits, the electorate as a whole is pretty willing to pass tax increases that support them. The ED-SPLOST always passes extremely easily - last time by a 75-25 ratio - and other SPLOSTs have passed for things like parks, trail network expansion and whatnot.

Hopefully sometime soon, a real transit and transportation proposal will be developed and put forth. It will be essential to explain to the voters exactly what they'd be getting in order for it to stand a good chance of passing, but if a good awareness campaign is developed, I could certainly see it passing. The 2012 T-SPLOST was a weak enough proposal as it was, but it was further hamstrung by the really lackluster, poorly conceived marketing plan that was developed for it.

[Pemgin]

Well, okay, but your leadership thinks differently and they got elected somehow...

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Well, okay, but your leadership thinks differently and they got elected somehow...

I don't think they think all that very differently. In fact I doubt you could find a quote from any of the 5 of them that directly contradicts anything I said.

I just think a few of them are less enthusiastic about these kinds of big changes, with Lisa Cupid as the exception. But I've never seen any type of anti-transit or anti-MARTA statement from Chairman Boyce, and he's the top person in charge of Cobb. (He might have those sentiments, but I haven't heard or seen about it.) Like I said, he and the NW and NE Cobb commissioners (the more conservative districts 1 and 3) just seem more quiet, less vocal about the topic of transportation. They're not blowhard bigots or anything like that.

Commissioner Bob Ott is on the regional transit committee, hopefully contributing to a commuter rail plan (which he supports.) And a lot of people, particularly the real estate and Cumberland business communities, I'm sure have spoken in favor of MARTA to him.

I have a decent feeling about MARTA's chances in Cobb in the next few years. But I think there will be some changes to MARTA before that happens, that will make it a little more palatable to certain people with more conservative mindsets. Sweeten the deal, if you will.

[brown_dog_us]

Originally Posted by cqholt

All this talk of history of MARTA, it's time to bring this article back: Where It All Went Wrong - Atlanta Magazine

Growing up in N Fulton decades ago, I can attest that the residents up there didn't want the train. They were mad enough about the buses.

btw, the biggest head scratcher for me is why didn't they buy land and set it aside? Even if they didn't use the specific properties it would have benchmarked them to the price of land in the burbs.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by brown_dog_us

Growing up in N Fulton decades ago, I can attest that the residents up there didn't want the train. They were mad enough about the buses.

btw, the biggest head scratcher for me is why didn't they buy land and set it aside? Even if they didn't use the specific properties it would have benchmarked them to the price of land in the burbs.

Ironically, MARTA to my knowledge owns 2 properties north of the river (Mansell and Windward P&R's), and neither of those sites are in the current/final plan for the Connect 400 heavy rail extension, which would not have a station at Mansell, and would have the Windward station on the west side of 400.

So I guess if Connect 400 happens, they'd sell those properties?

[Pemgin]

Originally Posted by primaltech

I don't think they think all that very differently. In fact I doubt you could find a quote from any of the 5 of them that directly contradicts anything I said.

I just think a few of them are less enthusiastic about these kinds of big changes, with Lisa Cupid as the exception. But I've never seen any type of anti-transit or anti-MARTA statement from Chairman Boyce, and he's the top person in charge of Cobb. (He might have those sentiments, but I haven't heard or seen about it.) Like I said, he and the NW and NE Cobb commissioners (the more conservative districts 1 and 3) just seem more quiet, less vocal about the topic of transportation. They're not blowhard bigots or anything like that.

Commissioner Bob Ott is on the regional transit committee, hopefully contributing to a commuter rail plan (which he supports.) And a lot of people, particularly the real estate and Cumberland business communities, I'm sure have spoken in favor of MARTA to him.

I have a decent feeling about MARTA's chances in Cobb in the next few years. But I think there will be some changes to MARTA before that happens, that will make it a little more palatable to certain people with more conservative mindsets. Sweeten the deal, if you will.

No. Why does MARTA have to change to fit Cobb's sensibilities? It's on an upward trajectory and has proven to be a major boon to development. It's fine, as is. Cobb needs MARTA. MARTA doesn't necessarily need Cobb.

The conservative mindset is exactly what I was referring to and why I'm very dim on Cobb's adoption of MARTA short of some sort of power grab (along with north Fulton and Gwinnett).

[brown_dog_us]

Originally Posted by primaltech

So I guess if Connect 400 happens, they'd sell those properties?

Sell them or keep them for parking. The Mansel Park and Ride always seems to be close to full, so it's keeping some cars off 400.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Why does MARTA have to change to fit Cobb's sensibilities?

Because that's just the way things are, in Georgia. It's not Chicago or New York, where progressive urban interests might have any state level power. Quite the opposite is true in Georgia, where the state is constant exploiter (rapist) of the riches and successes of the city. Always takes, never gives, or respects at all.

Plus, MARTA is not a municipal agency, but a state level agency. So, even though I'm no more in favor of it than you are, I definitely expect to see some changes to happen to MARTA. But again, the bright side is I'm also hopeful about 2 possible huge positive changes to come out of it, that is 2 more counties joining, and permanent state funding contribution.

But I do also expect a fight. I just don't think "your" side will win. At best, you will win some compromises, like the MARTA name might stay. Hopefully, anyway.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by brown_dog_us

Sell them or keep them for parking. The Mansel Park and Ride always seems to be close to full, so it's keeping some cars off 400.

That's the thing though, they won't make any sense if the train station is not located at the parking.

They will sell the Windward property to real estate developers, I'm sure. The Mansell property might be in GDOT territory though, as it's literally right off the highway, actually inside the access lane. MARTA might not even actually own that one.