How Atlanta is gradually becoming a bona fide bike-friendly city (cars, average)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

No, actually I didn't. What I proved is that if you go into an active area and remove 60% of the lanes in order to make it "more urban fabric-ey", things aren't always going to work out the way you want. Now, instead of a shop being able to unload its deliveries at the shop, they have to park (if they can find space, since their are no loading zones) a block or two away and schlep everything around. Just like you guys flail around every time there's a curb cut to cross, deliveries aren't generally going to park a block away.

What happened here was they took a wide road and completely neutered its productivity as a business area. If the area had been designed differently originally, with deliveries off the main road, then it might not be an issue. But, if the area was designed with the idea that delivery vehicles would use the right lane, and operated that way for decades, then removing that right lane is going to cause issues. That's just straight-up reality. That is a case of bad planning and design, both originally, and with the new layout. Putting both a wide bike lane and a street car and a super-wide sidewalk has made it near-impossible for operations to continue. That is still reality.

Are you referring to PCA or Edgewood? Neither of which should be wide, as they are in a dense urban setting. In fact if we are talking about Edgewood Ave, it is doing better with bike lanes than it ever has since the flight of African American owned businesses from the area.

Now, you can hope for delivery vehicles to park a few blocks away and push stuff down the street. But you, yourself, complain when you have to cross 40' of parking lot or 15' across a curb cut as if it's destroying your freedom. They're going to feel the same way. And when you see these bike lanes that are used so, so sparingly...it creates the thought that a quick stop to make a delivery isn't that big of a deal.

Not sure why they have to park a 'few blocks away' when this area is made up of small blocks, in the traditional urban setting.

I was very obviously being facetious. But, yeah...you guys are mad because your method of travel is being slowed down or you don't get completely-unblocked freedom of movement. Yet, if someone in a vehicle can't go more than 15MPH because a bike is in the way, or now deliveries must park in the road because their loading areas have been taken away, you don't see that as any problem...because
"vehicles bad".

Bikes and cars coexist when the movements of both are expected. When a vehicle is blocking the bike lane, the driver behind may not be expecting a bike to merge over. Which then causes conflict and the car will win every time.

Let's look at it another way. If you were riding on the Beltline, and a group of walkers prohibited you from riding as you desired, would you just walk your bike the whole way without a grumble? Nope. You would very much want them to get out of the way...I cannot count the number of bikers who yelled at us on the Silver Comet when we were walking our baby in his stroller...acting as if everyone needed to get out of their way. It goes both ways. In that way, yeah...it's the same thing.

Silver Comet is a different beast, as you have many spandex-clad, recreational-only riders, who use it to achieve PR on Strava. The BeltLine is not that, it's a TRUE transportation corridor connecting POI to each other and has activity fronting it. The 2 are not comparable. When riding on the BeltLine I always give the ROW to pedestrians, but there are rules that if everyone follows makes it a better experience for all.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Are you referring to PCA or Edgewood? Neither of which should be wide, as they are in a dense urban setting.

I was referring to Edgewood. Whether you think it should be wide or not (4 lanes isn't very wide), the fact remains that the way the road was designed and used changed so much that adaptation was very difficult. And you guys are reaping the "benefits".

In fact if we are talking about Edgewood Ave, it is doing better with bike lanes than it ever has since the flight of African American owned businesses from the area.

Okay....? I'm not arguing against bike lanes in general, just saying that this implementation wasn't well thought out with the streetcar on the same stretch AND losing another lane to a much wider sidewalk, and now you see why. And if the area continues to improve and more retail is built, the problems will only worsen unless they come up with a solution to the issue.

Not sure why they have to park a 'few blocks away' when this area is made up of small blocks, in the traditional urban setting.

Many of the blocks along Edgewood are 500' to 700' long, with cross streets so narrow (17'), a delivery truck would mostly block the road. There is no place on the westbound side to pull over, and the eastbound side is entirely paid parking spots.

Bikes and cars coexist when the movements of both are expected. When a vehicle is blocking the bike lane, the driver behind may not be expecting a bike to merge over. Which then causes conflict and the car will win every time.

That's why we have signals. Cars have turn signals, and bikers have their arms. The marge should be done when it's safe, just as it's done with cars. Delivery trucks are in every street in NYC, and they make it work. NOTE: I am not supporting vehicles blocking your special lanes, but it's just going to happen when designed like this. I mean...a delivery/uber driver is generally going to look at the completely empty lane used by maybe two people an hour, and think that his 2-minute delivery isn't going to cause much of an issue. And when there is almost nowhere else to pull over, it just is what it is.

Silver Comet is a different beast, as you have many spandex-clad, recreational-only riders, who use it to achieve PR on Strava. The BeltLine is not that, it's a TRUE transportation corridor connecting POI to each other and has activity fronting it. The 2 are not comparable. When riding on the BeltLine I always give the ROW to pedestrians, but there are rules that if everyone follows makes it a better experience for all.

So, there are no hardcore bikers on the Beltline? Huh...I guess my experience was imaginary.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

I was referring to Edgewood. Whether you think it should be wide or not (4 lanes isn't very wide), the fact remains that the way the road was designed and used changed so much that adaptation was very difficult. And you guys are reaping the "benefits".

Edgewood was that wide because it has always been multimodal, AKA Streetcars ran on rails down the middle with cars lane on the outisde.

Okay....? I'm not arguing against bike lanes in general, just saying that this implementation wasn't well thought out with the streetcar on the same stretch AND losing another lane to a much wider sidewalk, and now you see why. And if the area continues to improve and more retail is built, the problems will only worsen unless they come up with a solution to the issue.

Wider sidewalk is very much needed in this area. I guess you have never been down there on a Friday or Sat night?

That's why we have signals. Cars have turn signals, and bikers have their arms. The marge should be done when it's safe, just as it's done with cars. Delivery trucks are in every street in NYC, and they make it work. NOTE: I am not supporting vehicles blocking your special lanes, but it's just going to happen when designed like this. I mean...a delivery/uber driver is generally going to look at the completely empty lane used by maybe two people an hour, and think that his 2-minute delivery isn't going to cause much of an issue. And when there is almost nowhere else to pull over, it just is what it is.

A food delivery, 4 axle, tractor trailer isn't taking a couple minutes to unload. I do think something could be worked out where deliveries are not made during commute times, so cyclists can use the open lanes. During the day, when commuting is lighter, then deliveries could use the curb. I do support an agreement like that, but it will have to be clearly signed. Then we start getting into the confusing curb signs that NYC and Philly have.

So, there are no hardcore bikers on the Beltline? Huh...I guess my experience was imaginary.

A-holes exist everywhere. Silver Comet, BeltLine, in cars, on bikes, 4 deep walking the BeltLine, families blocking the entire trail, dogs on retractable leashes. Now you know how it feels to get buzzed by a car, except cars are much heavier and deadlier.

[cqholt]

That's why we have signals. Cars have turn signals, and bikers have their arms. The marge should be done when it's safe, just as it's done with cars. Delivery trucks are in every street in NYC, and they make it work. NOTE: I am not supporting vehicles blocking your special lanes, but it's just going to happen when designed like this. I mean...a delivery/uber driver is generally going to look at the completely empty lane used by maybe two people an hour, and think that his 2-minute delivery isn't going to cause much of an issue. And when there is almost nowhere else to pull over, it just is what it is.

Look at how easy it is use signals and squeeze between those trucks and cars.
Report: Cars illegally using bike lanes as parking spots - CBS46 News

[arjay57]

Enforcing the integrity of the bike lanes would be a great project for our new mayor and city council.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Enforcing the integrity of the bike lanes would be a great project for our new mayor and city council.

When was the last time our new mayor rode a bike?

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by cqholt

A food delivery, 4 axle, tractor trailer isn't taking a couple minutes to unload. I do think something could be worked out where deliveries are not made during commute times, so cyclists can use the open lanes. During the day, when commuting is lighter, then deliveries could use the curb. I do support an agreement like that, but it will have to be clearly signed. Then we start getting into the confusing curb signs that NYC and Philly have.

I think this would be a reasonable compromise. If the businesses had rear delivery areas, that would be ideal. But, these places were built many years ago and used the street for that. Many of those places simply have no other delivery spot. Restrict deliveries between 7am and 9am, and 4pm and 6pm, and enforce it.

But holy crap...on my drive to work today, a guy on a bike was on the side of the road but riding against traffic...that was kind of terrifying.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

I think this would be a reasonable compromise. If the businesses had rear delivery areas, that would be ideal. But, these places were built many years ago and used the street for that. Many of those places simply have no other delivery spot. Restrict deliveries between 7am and 9am, and 4pm and 6pm, and enforce it.

But holy crap...on my drive to work today, a guy on a bike was on the side of the road but riding against traffic...that was kind of terrifying.

Yes, that was the old way they taught kids.

[primaltech]

I think in a quiet neighborhood residential setting, where it's totally shared and there's no bike lanes, you really should bike on the left/ against the flow of traffic, so you can see what's oncoming. Particularly in this era of increasingly quiet, increasingly electric vehicles, that creep up on you. And particularly if it's hilly or curvy or lower visibility.

And I think you should just not bike at all on busy roads that don't have protected bike lanes, but that's another discussion.

[Atlanta Scientist]

I was in Tech square and did nearly get hit my cyclist while walking. APD was stopped at the light and shouted to the biker that the light was red. Did nothing though. Cars should be ticketed for being a bike lanes and cyclists should be ticketed when they break the law as well.

The blocked lanes push cyclists on sidewalks. The sidewalks in Atlanta are incredibly narrow. We need more bike lanes as well is protecting the one's we have.