Why aren't blacks buying houses in Dunwoody/Sandy Springs (Atlanta: equity, real estate)

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by DoveDiva

The above post right there is why, collectively, African-Americans would much rather spend our money elsewhere.

Why move where we aren't wanted? As the days go by and I read the various postings here, it's painfully obvious.

Please explain. I live in a very diverse neighborhood myself here in Mableton, and my wife and I chose it intentionally because we thought the population mix was cool. We mainly chose it because of the house itself, of course, but the neighbors were a plus. I grew up in a white Minneapolis suburb; learning about people Not Like Me is a positive thing in my mind. However, I know many others who don't share the same attitude.

Are you saying I'm somehow racist for describing what I've seen elsewhere? Or am I misunderstanding your intent?

Someone red-flagged my above comment for reasons I don't understand. Self-segregation is a well-known phenomenon in almost ALL social contexts, and to ignore that fact (and blame such actions purely on external pressures) is ignoring basic human nature, IMO.

[DoveDiva]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Please explain. I live in a very diverse neighborhood myself here in Mableton, and my wife and I chose it intentionally because we thought the population mix was cool. We mainly chose it because of the house itself, of course, but the neighbors were a plus. I grew up in a white Minneapolis suburb; learning about people Not Like Me is a positive thing in my mind. However, I know many others who don't share the same attitude.

Are you saying I'm somehow racist for describing what I've seen elsewhere? Or am I misunderstanding your intent?

Someone red-flagged my above comment for reasons I don't understand. Self-segregation is a well-known phenomenon in almost ALL social contexts, and to ignore that fact (and blame such actions purely on external pressures) is ignoring basic human nature, IMO.

No, it wasn't your post. There was another post before yours...I can't remember exactly what it said, but it's wasn't too nice. I guess it was deleted.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by DoveDiva

No, it wasn't your post. There was another post before yours...I can't remember exactly what it said, but it's wasn't too nice. I guess it was deleted.

Thanks. I thought I was going crazy. :-)

[wonderdallas]

Hey, I live in Sandy Springs! In the essence of disclosure, I'm a gay white male in my mid-thirties. I'm in my third house and it's in a very nice section of town but like most people, I had to start with a "starter-house" in a not-so glamorous location. Imagine being at the helicopter end of a busy airport and you'll get my drift. That was in Chamblee and the area is very mixed. Later I moved to Doraville and again, my neighborhood had many nationalities. Everyone was nice to each other and got along well.

Now I'm in "lily-white" Sandy Springs and yes it is mostly white. I know of one black and one asian family on my street but that's about it. As a gay guy I was alittle concerned about being accepted by the neighbors. They have been wonderful.

That said, if any of my black co-workers were looking for a home, I'd be thrilled to have them live next to me.

The real concern I think any established neighborhood residents have is seeing their way of life changed. Old people generally don't want a bunch of screaming skateboarding kids around. Conservative christians don't want a gay pride parade in their cul-de-sac. Hippies probably don't want a NRA gun toting redneck target practicing next door. I know these are extreme examples, but it can be filtered down into more common issues.

I remember alot of fuss about gays moving into Grant Park. Even tho they were renovating homes, alot of the black population had a problem with it. Some just didn't like *****s and some said it was making the area "too nice" thus raising property taxes.

So, while I would have no problem having a black neighbor, would that neighbor "fit" the tone of the established neighborhood? My black friends would fit right in but maybe 6 Escalades on 22"s and a house party every weekend might not. Just as I haven't had any problems, if I were pulling out all the crazier gay stereotypes and having loud pool parties in leather chaps, I'm sure there would be complaints. But I don't think the black people who would be attracted to my neighborhood would be the crazy-loud type. Just as the up scale Cascade area probably wouldn't take well to the gang from Jackass.

On a more subtle issue, my new asian neighbors, are I'm sure nice people, but there is one thing that's an issue. They have started growing corn in their front yard. Maybe that's ok where they are from, but it's just sorta tacky here. That's a cultural difference, not a skin tone issue, because Lord knows, a lesbian will grow some corn up in her front yard!

Most people could care less who lives next to them as long as they are respectful, not loud, cuts the grass and has a mangeable number of people living in the house. My property value has sky-rocketed over the years because of that being maintained but my friends have had less luck. Their house has not appreciated at all in the past 5 years! THAT's crazy for this area. Why? Well, because they owned a modest home ($160K) the other houses have lately been bought by mexican immigrants. The fact that they are hispanic or immigrants is not the problem because they are hard-working folk. The problem is at night there are several work trucks parked in each yard and too many unrelated people per household. When you have to enclose the garage into a bedroom, you have a problem.

Onto the discussion of whites not moving to black areas....if you haven't been to East Atlanta or Grant Park...College Park and East Point too... is having a HUGE influx of white people. They move there for the architecture and because it's somewhat affordable. So, there is intergration going on in the more affordable areas. Hell, Glenwood Park is fantastic and it's south of I-20.

It's happening, it just takes time and money.


-wd

[mommabear2]

This seems to be turning into a racial issue when really it is a social economic issue. My family and I are looking into buying a house in N. Atlanta (we're from CA), we are looking for amenities for our kids and a nice home. When we walk through the neighborhood we're looking at the houses - we don't know the color of our neighbors as most people don't know. Most of the time, it just happens that we live amongst people who make the same $$$ as we do... whether they are black, white, asian... I don't think this is a matter of segregation based on color but rather socioeconimic status. There's a difference. In California, most people don't make such a big deal about race... I hope Georgia doesn't either.

[L.E. Roselli]

Originally Posted by wonderdallas

are I'm sure nice people, but there is one thing that's an issue. They have started growing corn in their front yard. Maybe that's ok where they are from, but it's just sorta tacky here.

I've seen that. Corn as high as an elephant's eye!

(Brandon Mill Road, Sandy Springs, right?)

[stvincent]

Originally Posted by wonderdallas

Onto the discussion of whites not moving to black areas....if you haven't been to East Atlanta or Grant Park...College Park and East Point too... is having a HUGE influx of white people. They move there for the architecture and because it's somewhat affordable. So, there is intergration going on in the more affordable areas. Hell, Glenwood Park is fantastic and it's south of I-20.

It's happening, it just takes time and money.

-wd

The point is that upper middle class whites won't move into upper middle class Black neighborhoods.

[wonderdallas]

Originally Posted by L E Roselli

I've seen that. Corn as high as an elephant's eye!

(Brandon Mill Road, Sandy Springs, right?)

YES! I drive by there everyday. They seem nice enough but that doesn't mean I want to see my neighbors plowing the front yard.

Dolly Parton when asked if she ever goes out in the yard with no wig or makeup said, "Sure I do! But not in the FRONT yard."

[wonderdallas]

Originally Posted by stvincent

The point is that upper middle class whites won't move into upper middle class Black neighborhoods.

I guess I don't know enough upper middle class people to know the answer to that but I would hazard to guess that you are correct. Are the umc black communities new? Meaning, SS, Dunwoody and the like have been around for decades, so they have brand recognition as it were. Does the umc black communities have that yet with groups outside of the black community?

I've been driving a Kia as a rental lately and people are shocked at how nice it is and how nice the brand has gotten. Many people who have driven with me have said they will seriously cross shop it now that they know. So, I'm wondering if these nice "black" areas just haven't hit white folks radar.

Would whites be welcome there? In general?

I think seeing that many middle-class whites were willing to move into poor areas of town that had become predominately black (Grant Park etc) shows alot of progress in people's attitudes about race and even socioeconomic itermingling.

My BF lives in East Atlanta and his neighborhood is a nice new construction neighborhood. At the cul-de-sac BBQs there are black, whites, asians etc. Gays, straights, married and single people. Everyone gets along and seems to like each other. Yards are kept and people look out for their neighbor. That said, this development was carved out of a not so nice area. As soon as you drive out of the entrance there is garbage everywhere. People walking aimlessly at all hours of the night and shootings on a regular basis. Friends have found bullets on their decks. Tho the area has gotten nicer, it isn't surprising that people make their equity and move to ever more stable areas. This tends to send people to their comfort zone and often that happens to be in nice areas they have spent alot of time in. Nothing nefarious, just human nature and a world that can't change overnight.

-wd

[wonderdallas]

Oh and just another point, money does not buy class. You can buy the most expensive car and house and still be trashy. A plastic flamingo covered in pink diamonds is STILL a plastic flamingo. So I think it's a "character" issue as much as it's a money issue. In otherwords, does the potential new resident fit in? I think race is actually pretty far down on that criteria.... at least with they people I live with in my area of Sandy Springs. If you can afford it and are respectful, anyone is welcome as far as I'm concerned.


wd