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These areas are not affordable to most for the same reasons Beverly Hills, CA and Greenwich, CT are not affordable to most, they are meant for those who are well off. Rich people have to live somewhere and they usually like to live among others like themselves. In Dunwoody and Sandy SPrings most residents in the affluent parts would care less if the person moving next door was Black, white, hispanic, or Asian. The fact that they had the money to move there would be all that mattered. Green is the only color that matters to most wealthy Americans.
There has to be an upscale part of the Atlanta Metro area as there is in every major city. Here they are Buckhead, Brookhaven, Vinings, Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, Milton, and Johns Creek. Home prices in upscale communities rise faster than homes in other communities. This is because the parent involvemnt is likely to be higher in the public schools, the yards are likely to be well kept, renovations are more likely to be paid for, and the residents of the communitites demand that public areas be well maintained by their local government. Also, they keep out retailers and restaurants that might hurt their area's image.
Also, if someone is living in a $800,000 home in Dunwoody why would they approve of a subdivision being built down the road from their home with prices starting in the low 200s in the interest of making Dunwoody affordable? It is not in their best interest to make Dunwoody affordable. It is of course more their best interst for Dunwoody to become an even more expensive place to live. Those new lower priced homes would lower their property values and as a result residents are demanding that the starting home prices of new subdivisions reflect their rising home values.
Many times people who are well off will pay for expensive homes so they can feel like they are in a bubble, not apart of the outside world. As Atlanta continues to sprwal, these areas will become even more expensive due to their close proximity to the city's center. Now these areas are all predominately white. But the answer to the reason why that is is simple, most Blacks in the Metro area can't afford to love in these areas. Most whites can't either but since Blacks are a minority when considering the entire Metro area and not just the city of Atlanta alone, it would stand to reason that they would be a minority in these areas as well. Also, many of the Blacks that can afford to live in these northside areas choose to live in upscale Black areas instead. It is not that they feel that the upscale northside communites wouldn't accept them, they would just feel more comfortable around those who shared their background and culture.
Self segregation is what keeps these areas wealthy and white.
These areas are not affordable to most for the same reasons Beverly Hills, CA and Greenwich, CT are not affordable to most, they are meant for those who are well off. Rich people have to live somewhere and they usually like to live among others like themselves. In Dunwoody and Sandy SPrings most residents in the affluent parts would care less if the person moving next door was Black, white, hispanic, or Asian. The fact that they had the money to move there would be all that mattered. Green is the only color that matters to most wealthy Americans.
There has to be an upscale part of the Atlanta Metro area as there is in every major city. Here they are Buckhead, Brookhaven, Vinings, Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, Milton, and Johns Creek. Home prices in upscale communities rise faster than homes in other communities. This is because the parent involvemnt is likely to be higher in the public schools, the yards are likely to be well kept, renovations are more likely to be paid for, and the residents of the communitites demand that public areas be well maintained by their local government. Also, they keep out retailers and restaurants that might hurt their area's image.
Also, if someone is living in a $800,000 home in Dunwoody why would they approve of a subdivision being built down the road from their home with prices starting in the low 200s in the interest of making Dunwoody affordable? It is not in their best interest to make Dunwoody affordable. It is of course more their best interst for Dunwoody to become an even more expensive place to live. Those new lower priced homes would lower their property values and as a result residents are demanding that the starting home prices of new subdivisions reflect their rising home values.
Many times people who are well off will pay for expensive homes so they can feel like they are in a bubble, not apart of the outside world. As Atlanta continues to sprwal, these areas will become even more expensive due to their close proximity to the city's center. Now these areas are all predominately white. But the answer to the reason why that is is simple, most Blacks in the Metro area can't afford to love in these areas. Most whites can't either but since Blacks are a minority when considering the entire Metro area and not just the city of Atlanta alone, it would stand to reason that they would be a minority in these areas as well. Also, many of the Blacks that can afford to live in these northside areas choose to live in upscale Black areas instead. It is not that they feel that the upscale northside communites wouldn't accept them, they would just feel more comfortable around those who shared their background and culture.
Self segregation is what keeps these areas wealthy and white.
I think what stvincent meant to say was exclusivity.
I think what stvincent meant to say was exclusivity.
Exclusivity keeps these areas affluent. Self segregation by many of Atlanta's affluent Blacks is what keeps them white. If the neighborhoods in Cascade, Sandtown, Stone Mountain, and Lithonia were't booming with a more upscale Black population, there would be more Black residents in these lily white areas.
Exclusivity keeps these areas affluent. Self segregation by many of Atlanta's affluent Blacks is what keeps them white. If the neighborhoods in Cascade, Sandtown, Stone Mountain, and Lithonia were't booming with a more upscale Black population, there would be more Black residents in these lily white areas.
PINNNNNNNGGGGGGGG!!!
You hit it right on the screws, stvincent. Self segregation is going to become our biggest obstacle instead of an attractive alternative. Lemme 'splain.
The majority white home owners of Dunwoody/Sandy Springs/Johns Creek live there because, among other reasons, they've exercised the same choice as upper crust Blacks have: a comfort level with people who look like them. Now as a purely social matter, those folks who are less comfortable with me around are entitled to their views and feelings. So are Black folks who don't want Whites around. But as a practical matter, I have a problem with both sides doing this when it affects me. And as history shows, segregation--no matter who's doing it--ultimately has a negative impact.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise that wealth attracts other wealth. The fine folks of Dunwoody or Brookhaven may seem to have no qualms about the color of their neighbor ... but I'm not seeing an influx of wealthy Whites moving into Cascade or Lithonia's tonier areas.
But what I find most telling is the curious silence of folks who live in areas like Dunwoody/Sandy Springs. If more and more Blacks want to live amongst each other (and who want to fund their own schools; and function on their own tax base) ... well ... who are they to complain?
What a powerful conversation and one that we should all be engaged in. I agree with you BACKFIST....ALL THE WAY! I just wish other Blacks would take into account the very essence of what we are doing be repeating history but this time we are using the same tactics of intolerance against ourselves. For many blacks, living the "good life" is an honor and an achievement and being around other Blacks provides a sense of security and comfort. For too long have we allowed out comfort zones to blind us from reality. I find so interesting when Blacks (of which I am) yell racism and segregation but yet we promote it at the same time. We have to/must begin to look at what we are doing and saying, especially considering a growing minority population. We cannot afford to repeat history and be sucked into the past.
I enjoy living and learning about other cultures. Diversity is more important than many are willing to admit. It empowers one and allows our children to be open minded as well. In reality, blacks may have accomplished much politically, but until we act collectively and gain the economic influence (as a group) than we will just be another lone rep.
I have really loved reading the posts for this particular thread.
Coming from a very segregated city, I welcome the opportunity to live in the best possible area whether it be white, black or mixed. There are people who would argue that they feel more comfortable living around people who are the same race as them. But does being of the same race guarantee that you will get along with your neighbors? Of course not. Nor does being the same race and income level guarantee that you will have things in common.
I am not certain if self-segregation is done so much because of wanting to feel comfortable as much as it might be done out of habit. A person might say, "Well, I have always lived in predominately black/white neighborhoods so I figured I would continue the trend." But why? If a person has been truly happy self-segregating, I guess he/she would see no reason to break the trend. However, if a person has not be happy with their choice of neighborhood, isn't it time to consider all possible options?
I am not certain if self-segregation is done so much because of wanting to feel comfortable as much as it might be done out of habit. A person might say, "Well, I have always lived in predominately black/white neighborhoods so I figured I would continue the trend." But why? If a person has been truly happy self-segregating, I guess he/she would see no reason to break the trend. However, if a person has not be happy with their choice of neighborhood, isn't it time to consider all possible options?
The term I like to use for this is inertia. We've just gone along in the same direction (of segregation) without much force against it. We've got all the convenient excuses at hand ("comfort level", "they're all criminals, "they don't like us") so there's little chance that we'll muster up enough force to stop this inertia.
Does anyone feel that there is social pressure to self-segregate?
While in college(I went to a predominately white state school), I remember experiencing some social pressure by other African-American students to self-segregate from other races/cultures. I refused in to severe ties with my non-African-American friends and was labeled an Oreo . Thus I can help but wonder if some upperclass African-American people live in predominately upperclass African-American neighborhoods because they don't want to be viewed as turning their backs on the community.
While in college(I went to a predominately white state school), I remember experiencing some social pressure by other African-American students to self-segregate from other races/cultures. I refused in to severe ties with my non-African-American friends and was labeled an Oreo . Thus I can help but wonder if some upperclass African-American people live in predominately upperclass African-American neighborhoods because they don't want to be viewed as turning their backs on the community.
Credit to you for not bowing to peer pressure. It's hard enough being a young person, without having to carry everybody else's baggage. You'll be much better off as a person.
And yes, there are some upper class Black folk who hide behind the "comfort" fig leaf in order to justify their self-segregating. But even that's changing. People are seeing that upper class means more than just money. It's also about quality schools and quiet neighborhoods. People are no longer putting up with deteriorating neighborhoods and bad schools just to be able to live near folks who look the same.
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I have really loved reading the posts for this particular thread.
Does anyone feel that there is social pressure to self-segregate?
