Cost-effective Atlanta metro transit solution (hear me out...) (Newnan, Union City: school, tax)

[wasel]

Originally Posted by GSR13

Somewhat beyond the scope of this thread, but wouldn't an easier and cheaper option be widespread telecommuting??

There was an article "out there" recently -- might have been on cnn.com -- that said employers are starting to pull back on the telecommuting thing, due to lower productivity.

Personally, I get MORE done working from home (I'm self employed). When I used to work in an office environment, I was pulled into too many unnecessary meetings and conversations.

______

Regarding fixing transit, I was recently surprised to learn that DeKalb and Fulton drivers drive more vehicle miles traveled per capita than Gwinnett and Cobb drivers. So, since DeKalb and Fulton are already paying for MARTA, perhaps it makes more sense to focus first on expanding service in D&F to get those vehicle mile reductions down.

[primaltech]

Again, that really doesn't matter. What matters in the case of that problem is information, and technology is bringing more and more of that each year.

Yeah, I wouldn't want to stand out there in the summer waiting for a tram. That's why there needs to be a reliable, accurate map on your phone (not some special MARTA app, but right in the main map of your phone), that tells you exactly where the next one is, and roughly when it will arrive at your stop.

And that kind of technology and direct, real-time transit/map/phone integration will be here within 5 years, tops. So on a hot day or cold day, you'll know exactly when to walk out the door.

As far as heavy road congestion, yeah, that either decreases frequency, or it requires more vehicles to keep up the same frequency. But, at least you should be able to have information of where the next tram on the line is, along with what the congestion level is and how fast it's able to go.

That's why transit-only lanes, wherever possible, are going to be helpful. But by no means necessary for quality transit.

[ATLTJL]

I'm siding firmly with cqholt on this one.

I'm not opposed to something like this to serve as last mile kind of thing, but without a heavy rail spine to spur off of, I don't see the value.

I think the only way you're really going to get a big push behind transit in the suburbs is with the argument that it can get you out of traffic. Very few people are going to get behind a tax that just gets them to the same places they can already take their cars, only with a fee and more inconvenience.

What benefit is this offering the typical resident of the area it serves? Very few people in these areas don't own cars.

[primaltech]

The first, biggest benefit is that it only requires a 1/2 penny sales tax increase. This is good for 2 reasons: the north side suburbs don't want a lot of taxes, and they don't want a lot of transit. The general comfort level with mass transit is overall lukewarm at best. It's well-accepted that they need a lot more transit and a lot more funding that current levels, but at the same time, maybe not as much as ITP. And they don't seem to be excited about heavy rail, the cost of it being one reason.

The other thing that's good about a non-heavy-rail based solution, is that it means that the mass transit solution in Cobb/Gwinnett doesn't need to be MARTA, which there is an aversion to by about half the residents of those counties.

Another thing, is that a roads-based transit solution could take full advantage of the fact that GDOT and gas tax funds from the state, can only build road improvements with that money.

For example: the state tax could fund the construction of a new access ramp directly to/from the Peach Pass lanes on I-85, from N Brown Rd, next to the Sugarloaf Mills park&ride. Etc etc. Or flex posts along the whole lane, to prevent illegal merging. Things that would speed up an express commuter service from a Gwinnett park & ride to Lindbergh, or a Cobb park & ride to Arts Center.

But mainly, I just think this tram concept, would be so cool. I love that vehicle in that photo. You can call it a bus or not call it a bus, but it barely resembles one. It looks like serious mass transit, and it looks slick. And looks make a big difference.

There are a lot of reasons why I'm proposing this. One is just to improve buses. Make them useful, and cool.

What got me started on this, is thinking about Satellite Blvd and a potential LRT on it. It got me thinking, why bother to construct ROW. Just construct the stations, and have the thing run on tires. Let it navigate using the roads. But also not just a bus.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by primaltech

You wouldn't call it a bus if it was the same exact thing but running on an actual rail, so why does it need to be called a bus if the rail is virtual, ie. guided by sensors and technology? It's still guided. Like rail. And with all the other characteristics of LRT, like permanent stations.

And yes, I'd say the term tram makes it sound better, and potentially more attractive to demand riders.

As far as slowdowns due to vehicle congestion, then just address that issue as it comes up, with money. I was simply suggesting some cheap ways that could somewhat address that, such as the TSP, and shoulder-running and HOV-running.

Some day though, maybe only a few decades out, everything on the road could be AV, controlled and guided by computers. That would help these vehicles a lot, as it might have to run at 30 mph during busier hours instead of at 60 mph, but everything should be smoother.

And, again, I'm not saying no to dedicated lanes. Give it dedicated lanes, for key lines. That just costs more.

One easy and cheap way to get dedicated lanes is to convert right hand lanes to tram-only. Buford Hwy, Memorial Dr, etc.

I just don't think that would be an option in Buckhead. So they'd run in mixed traffic. But they could still be totally great.

So its a streetcar. Streetcars are the biggest waste of transportation money possible.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by wasel

There was an article "out there" recently -- might have been on cnn.com -- that said employers are starting to pull back on the telecommuting thing, due to lower productivity.

Personally, I get MORE done working from home (I'm self employed). When I used to work in an office environment, I was pulled into too many unnecessary meetings and conversations.

______

Regarding fixing transit, I was recently surprised to learn that DeKalb and Fulton drivers drive more vehicle miles traveled per capita than Gwinnett and Cobb drivers. So, since DeKalb and Fulton are already paying for MARTA, perhaps it makes more sense to focus first on expanding service in D&F to get those vehicle mile reductions down.

I've heard that as well. With new technology, they have a good idea of what people are doing and can quantify the work.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

HRT =/= urban, look at how far BART stretches into the East bay.

The Bay Area is very different. Not only does it have the density, it has a lot of undevelopable areas, so population is linear.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by primaltech

HRT for Cobb and Gwinnett would be so expensive for what they'd get.

IMO, Alpharetta is the only area that heavy rail needs to go that far OTP. It's a special case. It's a tech and jobs center. A commuter town. Almost an edge city, really.

The Gold, Green, and Blue lines should not go more than a few miles OTP. Heavy rail should be focused on ITP, where it should have more ITP extensions and branches and infills.

Let ITP become more and more big city.

I will agree with you here. I just don't think they need streetcars.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Well said, primaltech. Frequency trumps speed.

I don't agree. But it is useful not to have to plan your trip around a bus schedule (no matter how many apps they put on phones). You still need to have a competitive product. That product includes time, cost and convenience.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bu2

I don't agree. But it is useful not to have to plan your trip around a bus schedule (no matter how many apps they put on phones). You still need to have a competitive product. That product includes time, cost and convenience.

Well, you are probably right.

I just remember occasions when I was waiting what seemed like an eternity for the bus to get there. That is a turnoff to mass transit use. I wouldn't have cared all that much how fast the bus traveled as long as it picked me up.