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Oh! Part of it is only 10 or 12 lanes? Clearly that is the problem, it needs to be at least 15 lanes and traffic will get better! /sarcasm
Did you completely miscomprehend the part about losing lanes in a very short distance, and how merging slows down everything behind it? You know, the completely obvious?
Oh, wait...I forgot who I was talking to for a minute there.
I'd have no problem with toll lanes of they actually worked. But as anybody with a Peach pass knows, you don't go 45 miles per hour on the HOT lane in rush hour. Sometimes you just pay to sit in the same traffic as everybody else
This guy is more proof to me that the only way to really get away from Atlanta's traffic is to move out of Atlanta. I wonder if any Fortune 500 companies will figure that out soom
This guy is more proof to me that the only way to really get away from Atlanta's traffic is to move out of Atlanta. I wonder if any Fortune 500 companies will figure that out soom
Or just realize they need to locate places where people have alternatives to driving in to work. And that is happening. All the biggest relocation are happening to places with good transit access.
Or just realize they need to locate places where people have alternatives to driving in to work. And that is happening. All the biggest relocation are happening to places with good transit access.
And other companies are avoiding Atlanta entirely. There have been stories about that.
Here's one, highly controversial way that we could actually, seriously fix the traffic:
1. Make everything open 24-7. All businesses, everything.
2. Randomly hand all the residents of the metro a number, 1-24. Split us into 24 equal groups.
3. This number is now the hour that you wake up, start your day, and commute to work. And you go home 8 hours later.
You're right... That would be a highly controversial way to attempt to seriously fix the traffic.
And it is a highly controversial way that likely would face some serious court challenges on constitutional grounds.
...Serious court challenges on constitutional grounds that the government likely would lose, and for good reason...
In a Democratic society, government should not be in the business of forcing private businesses to stay open and operate hours that are longer than private businesses may want and/or need to operate at times of day and night that private businesses may not need to operate.
Not to mention that if it were actually to be put in practice, such a proposal of forcing all businesses to operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week whether they actually need to or not would be economically damaging to private businesses by forcing them to waste money to stay open and operate during hours when it likely may not be financially beneficial for them to do so.
Also, forcing businesses to operate during hours when they don't want to operate while assigning each resident of the metro a number and splitting everyone into 24 different groups sounds like a very Orwellian and very draconian way to solve a problem (traffic congestion) that basically is a consequence of being a Democratic society with a fairly extremely successful free market economy.
In a fast-growing large major metro area/region that has benefitted greatly from being in country with a fairly extremely successful free market economy like Atlanta, there is going to be traffic, and lots of it, generated by the increasingly massive amount of collective economic activity that comes with being a generally extremely successful fast-growing large major metro area in a fairly extremely successful free market economy.
We should not make irrational moves like forcing private businesses to stay open when they don't want and need to be open and we should not be advocating that government engage in Orwellian and draconian acts like mandating when people wake-up through government-assigned numbers and government-assigned groups.
In this type of free market economy and Democratic society in this region of the country with a very strong Libertarian streak, the prospect of that kind of government imposition on the operations of private business and individual private citizens most likely would most assuredly be politically (and socially and culturally) unworkable.
In a Democratic society and free market economy there really is no way to completely fix traffic problems without damaging the economic prospects of many through some kind of draconian measures.
And while we may not be able to completely fix traffic in a very fast-growing large major metro area like Atlanta in a Democratic society with a fairly successful free market economy, we can and should give people more options to traverse through the highest-capacity transportation corridors during peak-traffic hours by way of non-Orwellian and non-draconian means.
And other companies are avoiding Atlanta entirely. There have been stories about that.
I think it's going to be VERY interesting to see what Amazon does. I almost hope they DON'T pick Atlanta, even though it would be great for the economy....because if they don't, we'll have to really examine why. If they do, all the leaders will pat themselves on the back and say, "we did great, don't change a thing!"
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1. Make everything open 24-7. All businesses, everything.
I'm for this. But I don't think you can legislate it, I think you have to make it economically attractive. I mean, it already is at places like Avalon (and I think Atlantic Station). You see stores closing down at 9pm on Saturday night when there are still tons of people wandering around ready to spend money. I never understood this when they are open at 11am on Tuesday, when 90% of people can't go because they are at work. I believe they do it because the development operator requires it, the same way all stores at shopping malls close at the same time. I've never understood why nobody has figured out that staying open until 10pm or 11pm makes a lot more sense. And closing at 6pm on Sunday? Don't even get me started on that!!!
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2. Randomly hand all the residents of the metro a number, 1-24. Split us into 24 equal groups.
3. This number is now the hour that you wake up, start your day, and commute to work. And you go home 8 hours later.
That would never work because if you draw 2am, meaning you go in at 2am and work until 10am, that's pretty brutal. Would you just say, "you know, I don't like this system...perhaps I'll move to a different city."
I agree with capitalism fixing the problem. What I just can't really figure out is why capitalism hasn't solved the closing early issue. There aren't blue laws anymore, stores can stay open until 11pm on Sunday if they want to...why has nobody (except Target) figured this out yet? It seems really insane to me to limit your hours to 12pm-6pm on one of only 2 days in the entire week most people have to shop. If anything, stores should be open 12pm-11pm M-Th, 12pm-12am F, 9a-12am Sat, 9am-11pm Sunday. That's what I think!
I'd have no problem with toll lanes of they actually worked. But as anybody with a Peach pass knows, you don't go 45 miles per hour on the HOT lane in rush hour. Sometimes you just pay to sit in the same traffic as everybody else
That is an excellent point about the HOT lanes on I-85 Northeast.
The biggest flaws with the I-85 Northeast HOT lanes are that the lanes share the same pavement with the general-purpose lanes and do not have their own exits and entrances.
Unlike the the I-85 Northeast HOT lanes, the I-75 Northwest Corridor express toll lanes will largely have their own exits and entrances and operate on their own roadbed that is physically separated from the existing general-purpose lanes on I-75.
That the I-75 Northwest Corridor express toll lanes will be operating on their own grade-separated roadbed is the reason why the lanes will reversible in that they will flow towards I-285 and Atlanta in the morning and flow away from I-285 and Atlanta in the afternoons and evenings.
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Originally Posted by ATLTJL
This guy is more proof to me that the only way to really get away from Atlanta's traffic is to move out of Atlanta. I wonder if any Fortune 500 companies will figure that out soom
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Originally Posted by jsvh
Or just realize they need to locate places where people have alternatives to driving in to work. And that is happening. All the biggest relocation are happening to places with good transit access.
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Originally Posted by bu2
And other companies are avoiding Atlanta entirely. There have been stories about that.
ATLTJL makes a great point when saying that the only way to really get away from Atlanta's traffic congestion issues is to move out of Atlanta.
Not everyone thinks that or comes to that conclusion but there have been many people who have moved away from Atlanta (just as there have been people who have moved away from other large major metro areas like Los Angeles/Southern California and New York) to escape urban issues like traffic, crime, overcrowding and changing demographics as the Atlanta metro area has grown larger, more crowded, more congested, more crime-challenged over a larger area and more diverse.
ATLJTL also makes a great point in wondering if any Fortune 500 companies will figure out that the best way to get away from Atlanta's traffic is to move out of Atlanta while bu2 makes a great point in saying that there have been stories about companies avoiding Atlanta entirely because of traffic and mobility concerns.
There have been some somewhat relatively minor cases of companies moving out of Atlanta because of concerns about traffic and transportation mobility, but there do not yet seem to have been any cases of a major company moving out of the Atlanta area because of traffic.
Probably the most notable and most high-profile case of a company avoiding Atlanta entirely because of traffic concerns was when MeadWestvaco moved its headquarters to Richmond, Virginia instead of Atlanta in 2006, citing Atlanta's growing traffic challenges.
Many metro Atlanta boosters think that there have more cases of companies avoiding Atlanta entirely because of traffic but think that the companies that might have done so have not publicly cited Atlanta's traffic as the reason why they did not move to Atlanta.
But even the past, current and perennial concerns about traffic do not currently seem to be hurting Atlanta's corporate relocation prospects, probably because of the overwhelmingly positive buzz that has been created about the city and metro area with such major happenings as:
> The rise of Atlanta into one of the world's top-two TV and Film production centers...
> The continued national/international dominance of Atlanta's Hip-Hop music scene...
> The construction and opening of major-league sports venues as Mercedes-Benz Stadium and SunTrust Park...
> The awarding of such big sporting events to Atlanta as the 2018 College Football Playoff National Championship Game (along with being a rotating site for the College Football National Semifinal Game), Super Bowl LIII (2019), the 2020 men's college basketball Final Four...
> The retention of the SEC Football Championship Game after the announcement of the agreement to construct Mercedes-Benz Stadium...
> The awarding of an MLS (Major League Soccer) franchise (Atlanta United) to Atlanta...
> The relocation of Mercedes-Benz' North American headquarters to (an area near the MARTA Red Line in) Sandy Springs...
> The relocation of Porsche North American headquarters to Hapeville near Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport...
> The continued status of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport as the world's busiest passenger airport...
> The designation of the state of Georgia as the number-one state to do business in by multiple national business groups and publications...
> The rise of the Atlanta area into a major technology industry hub for the Southeastern U.S.
The decade of the 2010's arguably has not been as consequential for the Atlanta area as the 1990's were when much positive buzz was created by Atlanta's berth as host of the 1996 Summer Olympics and two Super Bowls as well Atlanta's attainment of semi-permanent annual hosting duties of the SEC Championship Game, the construction and opening of the Georgia Dome, etc.
But during the decade of the 2010's there does seem to have been such an overwhelming amount of positive buzz created by the aforementioned events that it has been enough for national and international corporate entities and much of the national and international business community as a whole to make them overlook the ongoing concerns about Atlanta's traffic issues.
jsvh also makes an excellent point that many companies who do move to Atlanta seem to be moving their operations to areas where there may be alternatives to driving, areas like near MARTA Heavy Rail Transit lines as companies like IBM, NCR and Mercedes-Benz have done in recent years in moving their corporate operations near MARTA stations.
While such a situation obviously may not continue to be the case forever, the Atlanta metro area seems to be producing such an overwhelmingly positive amount of buzz to the point that the metro area has been able to overcome national and international corporate concerns about traffic congestion and mobility to remain a viable (if not attractive) destination for corporate relocations.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 11-30-2017 at 01:29 AM..
I think it's going to be VERY interesting to see what Amazon does. I almost hope they DON'T pick Atlanta, even though it would be great for the economy....because if they don't, we'll have to really examine why. If they do, all the leaders will pat themselves on the back and say, "we did great, don't change a thing!"
I understand and share your apparent frustration with the lack of alternatives to driving in severe traffic congestion throughout much of the Atlanta metro area and region.
But I cannot and will not share your hope that Atlanta loses out on such a monstrously massive economic and public relations event as being awarded Amazon's second headquarters just so that a point can be proven about transportation.
I know and agree that transportation needs to be addressed, but even with metro Atlanta's transportation concerns, I would much rather Atlanta get the monster economic and PR win and have the overwhelming pressure of such a monster win (along with the overwhelming pressure of Amazon's executives) force the Atlanta region and Georgia state government to do something about transit than not have the overwhelming pressure of an Amazon corporate relocation to force Georgia state government to do something major and much needed on transportation.
I think that a win on something as massive as getting Amazon's second headquarters will do much more to force a changed trajectory on transportation thinking at the regional and state levels than a loss.
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