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Old 04-12-2018, 09:53 PM
 
1,268 posts, read 631,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I would say that West End has better location than GP, because it has a MARTA station in it's commercial core.
But what has driven West End's recent surge in appeal and prices to people of higher incomes: The BeltLine


Kirkwood is close to 50-50; it has long time, fixed income African Americans as well as new, middle class and above African Americans.
Yes, found the data, it was 49-46 white-AA in 2010. I imagine it may have change since then though, that's over 8 years out of date.
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:39 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,177 posts, read 16,180,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
SF is not fully gentrified...there are still some rough areas here or there in the city.


I think the important thing for a city is to have a safe urban core and safe neighborhoods that surround the urban core like NYC(Manhattan), SF, Seattle, and Boston.

This might sound dismissive, but if Atlanta can have a safe inner 40 or so square miles, we'd be alright. A person from the suburbs has no reason at this moment to go to the SW neighborhoods of the city and almost none of the popular culture institutions are there....they're all located in the urban core of the city.
Tell that to all the OTP tags at Monday Night Garage
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:44 AM
JPD
 
11,871 posts, read 14,480,463 times
Reputation: 7544
Sub-prime mortgages are making a big come-back, so buckle up.
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Old 04-15-2018, 06:30 AM
 
1,546 posts, read 2,543,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeoff View Post
The ďappealĒ of Grant Park was that whites never completely left, and parts were always relatively desirable. The gentrification that is happening from Kirkwood forward is something newóbut the west side is something even more different, because it doesnít even border white neighborhoods, like Oakhurst and Kirkwood did.
Okay, so the main factor that separated Grant Park from post-Beltline West End is that some white people lived there. I get that. But I wonder what the demographics in Grant Park was like in say... 1989, or 1991. Currently West End/Westview is about 15% white. But I would venture to say that is whiter than Grant Park was in the early 90ís. So, to your point, the growing ďwhitenessĒ (for better or worse) as well as the relatively reasonable price point, as well as the things I mentioned earlier probably play a large roll in the growing ďappealĒ of the the SWATS near the Beltline. For quite some time, Grant Park was also was considered an island surrounded by undesirable neighborhoods as well. And with time, things changed... Iím not saying things will happen the exact same way around the West End, but I also donít think itís as different as people make it out to be. Itís definitely not apples and oranges. Maybe more like a mature, flourishing apple tree vs a newly planted and growing apple tree, as long as the weather (ie. economic conditions) hold up.

I agree that 30317 is different, but I may discuss that in a different post...
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Old 04-15-2018, 07:15 AM
 
1,546 posts, read 2,543,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Sub-prime mortgages are making a big come-back, so buckle up.
Yikes. I also agree that the era of the profitable quick flip will only last so long in the SWATS. I know this will sound crazy, but I think the recession actually helped the eastside and southeast intown neighborhoods in the long run. I remember when there was all the controversy about Kirkwood being rezoned from the Grady to the Jackson Cluster. This is back when most white people were scared to death of Jackson. Even GP families were moving away after middle school. Then the recession happened and home values plummeted. People who were just intown until their kids were school age were then deeply underwater and forced to stay. This caused the Jackson parents to galvanize and invest in their own schools and communities more, making them whiter and more desirable. This also caused a snowball effect to the point that as the recession ended, all these neighborhoods made a roaring comeback. I think if the recession had not happened, much of the eastside gentrifiers of the early 2000ís would have left and taken many of the seeds that are now causing those communities (and schools) to flourish. But thatís just my two cents...

I know this is slightly different than the sub-prime crisis, but a valid point nonetheless. West End was barely getting off the ground when it was raped in regard to mortgage fraud; then there was the recession, which led to record-breaking foreclosures. So the area was completely decimated until recently with the Beltline, etc. With all that said, Iím not so naive to believe that West End prices will rise forever and there will never be an economic downturn. But the hope is that all these people paying top dollar to move to the SWATS have the foresight to dig in, stay put, and ride it out.

After all, does anyone remember when Decatur City was predominantly black, had average schools, and was only moderately desirable? What about when Grady was considered a ďbadĒ school? I do.

It seems people often underestimate Atlanta as a whole. But all of these people just donít know how far we have come as a city and I honestly believe that we are just now hitting our stride.
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Old 04-15-2018, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Atlanta and St Simons Island, GA
20,953 posts, read 32,944,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
Yikes. I also agree that the era of the profitable quick flip will only last so long in the SWATS. I know this will sound crazy, but I think the recession actually helped the eastside and southeast intown neighborhoods in the long run. I remember when there was all the controversy about Kirkwood being rezoned from the Grady to the Jackson Cluster. This is back when most white people were scared to death of Jackson. Even GP families were moving away after middle school. Then the recession happened and home values plummeted. People who were just intown until their kids were school age were then deeply underwater and forced to stay. This caused the Jackson parents to galvanize and invest in their own schools and communities more, making them whiter and more desirable. This also caused a snowball effect to the point that as the recession ended, all these neighborhoods made a roaring comeback. I think if the recession had not happened, much of the eastside gentrifiers of the early 2000ís would have left and taken many of the seeds that are now causing those communities (and schools) to flourish. But thatís just my two cents...
An astute and well-stated observation, equinox, and worth more than two cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
I know this is slightly different than the sub-prime crisis, but a valid point nonetheless. West End was barely getting off the ground when it was raped in regard to mortgage fraud; then there was the recession, which led to record-breaking foreclosures. So the area was completely decimated until recently with the Beltline, etc. With all that said, Iím not so naive to believe that West End prices will rise forever and there will never be an economic downturn. But the hope is that all these people paying top dollar to move to the SWATS have the foresight to dig in, stay put, and ride it out.
Your hope is well placed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
After all, does anyone remember when Decatur City was predominantly black, had average schools, and was only moderately desirable? What about when Grady was considered a ďbadĒ school? I do.
I do indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
It seems people often underestimate Atlanta as a whole. But all of these people just donít know how far we have come as a city and I honestly believe that we are just now hitting our stride.
I share your faith.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:31 PM
 
1,958 posts, read 1,643,634 times
Reputation: 1185
Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
Okay, so the main factor that separated Grant Park from post-Beltline West End is that some white people lived there. I get that. But I wonder what the demographics in Grant Park was like in say... 1989, or 1991. Currently West End/Westview is about 15% white. But I would venture to say that is whiter than Grant Park was in the early 90’s. So, to your point, the growing “whiteness” (for better or worse) as well as the relatively reasonable price point, as well as the things I mentioned earlier probably play a large roll in the growing “appeal” of the the SWATS near the Beltline. For quite some time, Grant Park was also was considered an island surrounded by undesirable neighborhoods as well. And with time, things changed... I’m not saying things will happen the exact same way around the West End, but I also don’t think it’s as different as people make it out to be. It’s definitely not apples and oranges. Maybe more like a mature, flourishing apple tree vs a newly planted and growing apple tree, as long as the weather (ie. economic conditions) hold up.

I agree that 30317 is different, but I may discuss that in a different post...
Many things are different, a lot for the better, maybe some for the worse. I’ve mentioned traffic before, but additionally, race matters less—some of that is “enlightenment”, some of that is just a new reality, and a bit of that is ignorance of the past.
Enlightenment— for as much as much some folks see race relations as being terrible, I think that for most (certainly for many) things are much better. There are more people who care less about race.
A new reality—there are just fewer places white folks that want to avoid blacks can run to, so folks adjust. Also, when Bill Campbell nuked the City’s housing projects it probably made all of this “gentrification” possible—maybe even probable. Much of the most stigmatized black population in the city were gone from the City’s core.
And ignorance, folks don’t really know about the past. They think Adair Park or Kirkwood were just the same as Grant Park or VaHi, so they take comfort in knowing what they are doing has been done before, even though hasn’t (ignorance is not always a bad thing, it can make people take chances that folks before them would not take).
Anyway, your orange is not an apple, it is an orange, but oranges are good too.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Atlanta/East Point
24 posts, read 11,819 times
Reputation: 20
Nobody cares about the poor or less educated round here duhhh. It’s the new Atlanta baby get with it or get ran over basically. All the gentrified neighborhoods are the same. Poor, uneducated and native black Atlantans are in the way of people moving here from other places duhhhh
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