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Old 04-19-2018, 10:46 AM
 
395 posts, read 470,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
Fair enough.

The difference too is in the quality of growth. While Coweta is mostly gaining middle to upper middle class residents from Fayette and South Fulton, My understanding (though I could be wrong) is that it's mainly lower / working class residents from SW Atlanta and Clayton County settling into South Fulton these days, since it lacks a lot of the amenities that would attract higher income residents. This is the reason, at least in part, the mall in Union City declined and was eventually closed in favor of Ashley Park.
Like most municipalities, South Fulton is many things. There are beautiful areas/neighborhoods, etc. Camp Creek Marketplace still have a *decent* mix of stores - including Target, Publix, Lowe's, BJ's, Five Guys, etc., etc., etc. - to service a portion of the area. There is also a nice Publix shopping center at the intersection of SFP and Fairburn-Campbellton Road.

I'm not sure how lower/working-class residents would be selling out some of the subdivisions I've seen, in the price ranges that I've seen. Hardly lower class.

Then, you absolutely have depressed areas of the county. I think the problem is trying to paint all of South Fulton with one broad brush.
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Old 04-19-2018, 11:32 AM
 
145 posts, read 236,647 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post


What an ignorant, untrue, and false statement to make.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgpremed13 View Post
What are you talking about? The vast majority of homes in this country are bought by white people, and their preferences drive the market. I'm not saying minorities don't by homes, they just don't do so at nearly the rate white people do, even when adjusted for population. What I say is neither ignorant, untrue, or false. If it were you would have made a more substantial argument.
"The rate of homeownership, one of the most important ways for working- and middle-class families to build wealth, has remained virtually unchanged for African Americans in the past 50 years. Black homeownership remains just over 40 percent, trailing 30 points behind the rate for whites, who have seen modest gains during that time."

"The wealth gap between white and black Americans has more than tripled in the past 50 years, according to Federal Reserve data. The typical black family had zero wealth in 1968. Today the median net worth of white families — $171,000 — is 10 times that of black families."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.e1d67f192029
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Old 04-21-2018, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Valdosta (Atlanta Native)
3,442 posts, read 2,816,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
Fair enough.

The difference too is in the quality of growth. While Coweta is mostly gaining middle to upper middle class residents from Fayette and South Fulton, My understanding (though I could be wrong) is that it's mainly lower / working class residents from SW Atlanta and Clayton County settling into South Fulton these days, since it lacks a lot of the amenities that would attract higher income residents. This is the reason, at least in part, the mall in Union City declined and was eventually closed in favor of Ashley Park.
Shannon closed because of its owner not being able to maintain the property and going bankrupt. He didnít manage the mall well so there were times they couldnít even pay the power bills. The market for a mall didnít go anywhere. People in South Fulton donít travel to Newnan to shop, but I know some who go to Arbor Place now that Shannon is dead.
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:14 AM
 
1,035 posts, read 412,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
Shannon closed because of its owner not being able to maintain the property and going bankrupt. He didn’t manage the mall well so there were times they couldn’t even pay the power bills. The market for a mall didn’t go anywhere. People in South Fulton don’t travel to Newnan to shop, but I know some who go to Arbor Place now that Shannon is dead.
The poor management by the last owner of Shannon Mall may have pushed it over the edge, but it was already long into decline before that. Plus, a lot of stores that would have stayed put or considered that Mall opted for Ashley Park once it was proposed. And what I will say too is if the demographics were as favorable in South Fulton as you claim, another developer would have quickly swooped up the property and brought it back to the former glory it experienced back in the 1980s.

And I find your comment about residents in South Fulton not shopping in Newnan extremely hard to believe, given that Fairburn and Union City in particular have much easier access to Newnan via. I-85 than Douglasville and all of the Fulton license plates I see around the shopping centers here. Newnan also pulls heavily from Troup County and Fayette County (and has become the regional shopping destination for the SW Metro).
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:37 AM
 
1,035 posts, read 412,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gold15 View Post
Like most municipalities, South Fulton is many things. There are beautiful areas/neighborhoods, etc. Camp Creek Marketplace still have a *decent* mix of stores - including Target, Publix, Lowe's, BJ's, Five Guys, etc., etc., etc. - to service a portion of the area. There is also a nice Publix shopping center at the intersection of SFP and Fairburn-Campbellton Road.

I'm not sure how lower/working-class residents would be selling out some of the subdivisions I've seen, in the price ranges that I've seen. Hardly lower class.

Then, you absolutely have depressed areas of the county. I think the problem is trying to paint all of South Fulton with one broad brush.
I'm sure there are perfectly fine areas in South Fulton as well as small pockets of wealth. But that doesn't mean they're highly sought after, nor does it mean that wealth flight and inward migration of lower income residents still isn't occurring. And the mix of retailers you list is *OK,* but there's nothing special about then. Coweta and Fayette Counties meanwhile has higher-end retail such as Dillard's, Jos A. Bank, Jared's, American Eagle Outfitters, Lane Bryant, Men's Warehouse, etc. and people do consider the proximity of these type of stores when deciding on a place to live.

Also, the stats I've found show that the median income in South Fulton (despite modest growth since 2010) has yet to recover to pre-recession levels (unlike in neighboring Coweta and Fayette County), which suggests a significant chunk of that modest growth doesn't consist of higher income residents.

BTW, the stats I found also show the median home values to only be $125K. So those $300-$350K+ homes you mention have to be the exception to the rule.
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Old 04-22-2018, 10:57 AM
 
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Schools mostly. North Fayette is on the verge of becoming the black wealth mecca.
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Valdosta (Atlanta Native)
3,442 posts, read 2,816,679 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
The poor management by the last owner of Shannon Mall may have pushed it over the edge, but it was already long into decline before that. Plus, a lot of stores that would have stayed put or considered that Mall opted for Ashley Park once it was proposed. And what I will say too is if the demographics were as favorable in South Fulton as you claim, another developer would have quickly swooped up the property and brought it back to the former glory it experienced back in the 1980s.

And I find your comment about residents in South Fulton not shopping in Newnan extremely hard to believe, given that Fairburn and Union City in particular have much easier access to Newnan via. I-85 than Douglasville and all of the Fulton license plates I see around the shopping centers here. Newnan also pulls heavily from Troup County and Fayette County (and has become the regional shopping destination for the SW Metro).
Most I know would choose Fayetteville over Newnan to shop. The only people who really have access to Newnan are those on the east side of UC and Fairburn, and those in Palmetto. For everyone else in South Fulton, Fayetteville or Douglasville is closer. I’ve lived on the south side basically since I was a child and have never even heard of Ashley Park or anyone going there to shop or hang out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citidata18 View Post
I'm sure there are perfectly fine areas in South Fulton as well as small pockets of wealth. But that doesn't mean they're highly sought after, nor does it mean that wealth flight and inward migration of lower income residents still isn't occurring. And the mix of retailers you list is *OK,* but there's nothing special about then. Coweta and Fayette Counties meanwhile has higher-end retail such as Dillard's, Jos A. Bank, Jared's, American Eagle Outfitters, Lane Bryant, Men's Warehouse, etc. and people do consider the proximity of these type of stores when deciding on a place to live.

Also, the stats I've found show that the median income in South Fulton (despite modest growth since 2010) has yet to recover to pre-recession levels (unlike in neighboring Coweta and Fayette County), which suggests a significant chunk of that modest growth doesn't consist of higher income residents.

BTW, the stats I found also show the median home values to only be $125K. So those $300-$350K+ homes you mention have to be the exception to the rule.
How many minorities shop at stores like those realistically? I don’t think black people are looking for a Dillard’s when they are scouting out a neighborhood. In my opinion, Shannon Mall did leave a hole in the retail market here so a development on the scale of Southlake or Town Center, something aimed at the middle class, would really benefit the residents of South Fulton.

Last edited by demonta4; 04-22-2018 at 12:30 PM..
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:34 PM
 
59 posts, read 30,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronricks View Post


What an ignorant, untrue, and false statement to make.
His statement was actually spot on except he didn't mean to suggest that white people are the only folks with means to buy houses (as he later clarified).
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Old 04-22-2018, 02:02 PM
 
1,035 posts, read 412,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonta4 View Post
Most I know would choose Fayetteville over Newnan to shop. The only people who really have access to Newnan are those on the east side of UC and Fairburn, and those in Palmetto. For everyone else in South Fulton, Fayetteville or Douglasville is closer. I’ve lived on the south side basically since I was a child and have never even heard of Ashley Park or anyone going there to shop or hang out.
I don't doubt your own personal experience, but I doubt it's the norm.

Quote:
How many minorities shop at stores like those realistically?
Is this a serious question?

I'm black myself BTW. Even if I don't shop at those type of higher-end stores stores frequently, I still appreciate the effect they have on boosting property values and attracting more middle and upper-middle income residents such as myself. Plus, it's nice not having to travel a long ways to reach them when I do need a certain product from those stores.

To be perfectly honest, I'd be really concerned if stores along the line of Target or Publix is the best an area can attract as far as retail, and there hasn't been any new major commercial developments recently.

Last edited by citidata18; 04-22-2018 at 02:15 PM..
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