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Old 04-24-2018, 08:25 PM
 
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Not sure if this has already been asked but I have seen it referred to. Why is most of the growth and development of the area northward from downtown? I understand that many of the areas to the south of downtown and below I-20 aren't as desirable but why didn't Atlanta and the surrounding areas grow more equally distributed around the metro north south east and west instead of the majority of people and businesses being north?
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:27 PM
 
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High paying jobs in Alpharetta and the Perimeter area so naturally those with those high paying jobs moved in the same general area.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Lake Spivey, Georgia
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Before I answer this question, I wish to point out that there are MANY nice and desirable areas east, west, AND SOUTH of Atlanta.

Now, believe it or not all of this goes back to 19th Century Atlanta and "being on the 'wrong' side of the tracks". Our original passenger and freight stations were along the "gulch" just south of Five Points. When trains went through town, their would be horrific traffic jams crossing through Five Points (just think dreadful in a car, intolerable in horse and buggy!) This is why viaducts were built throughout the southern end of downtown making the second floor the "first" street level floor creating a below street level "city" aka "Underground Atlanta" of mostly service streets. Anyway, this shifted the "favored quarter" of Atlanta both north and east ( why do you think there are so many leafy and lovely east side neighborhoods in Atlanta and why Dekalb County includes so many of the city's early suburbs.)

Also, Peachtree Street north of Five Points, (present day Peachtree Center/ Hotel District) was post Civil War Atlanta's "millionaire's row" with the mansions of the city's elite. (Including the fictional Victorian monstrosity of Scarlett and Rhett's Atlanta mansion in Gone with the Wind) So the more upscale shops and hotels followed the money north up Peachtree Street. This continued for decades. When the 100's block of Peachtree Street went commercial, the mansion district moved north to Midtown, and later in the 1920's and 30's further uptown to Buckhead, and of course the commercial district continued to follow it. Case in point: Peachtree Street IS "Business U.S. 19" Georgia 400 is also labeled at "U.S. 19" so you could say that they are following a "well worn path".
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:53 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 472,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Before I answer this question, I wish to point out that there are MANY nice and desirable areas east, west, AND SOUTH of Atlanta.

Now, believe it or not all of this goes back to 19th Century Atlanta and "being on the 'wrong' side of the tracks". Our original passenger and freight stations were along the "gulch" just south of Five Points. When trains went through town, their would be horrific traffic jams crossing through Five Points (just think dreadful in a car, intolerable in horse and buggy!) This is why viaducts were built throughout the southern end of downtown making the second floor the "first" street level floor creating a below street level "city" aka "Underground Atlanta" of mostly service streets. Anyway, this shifted the "favored quarter" of Atlanta both north and east ( why do you think there are so many leafy and lovely east side neighborhoods in Atlanta and why Dekalb County includes so many of the city's early suburbs.)

Also, Peachtree Street north of Five Points, (present day Peachtree Center/ Hotel District) was post Civil War Atlanta's "millionaire's row" with the mansions of the city's elite. (Including the fictional Victorian monstrosity of Scarlett and Rhett's Atlanta mansion in Gone with the Wind) So the more upscale shops and hotels followed the money north up Peachtree Street. This continued for decades. When the 100's block of Peachtree Street went commercial, the mansion district moved north to Midtown, and later in the 1920's and 30's further uptown to Buckhead, and of course the commercial district continued to follow it. Case in point: Peachtree Street IS "Business U.S. 19" Georgia 400 is also labeled at "U.S. 19" so you could say that they are following a "well worn path".
Pretty interesting history lesson.

There was something about GA-400 / U.S. 19 that kind of struck a few questions.

I don't know for sure on this but I thought for a good while (like during the 80's and 90's) that U.S. 19 followed Hwy 9 and GA-400 was not cosigned with U.S. 19 until later...around the same time that they renumbered all the exits... I could be wrong about this though, but for awhile I thought GA-400 was by itself for its entire route where as today its cosigned with U.S. 19 from I-285 until its terminus.

Another thing I'd like to note though is that GA-400 / U.S. 19 cosign.. generally throughout the country with very few exceptions, if there is a reasonable limited access route running in the same route / direction as a U.S. Highway, the U.S. Highway and State Maintained Freeway will generally share the same right of way (or cosign) as to steer interstate commerce traffic away from the cores of small towns or suburban communities and onto a route that can handle dedicated commercial traffic. Now what I DON'T know, is if this means the freeway receives federal funding... I "think" it does, but not 100% sure on it...but pointing this out to state that the U.S. 19 / GA-400 cosigning is more so a coincidence than a strategic ploy to push higher end employment opportunities into Alpharetta...and the REAL peachtree street as we know it today is actually Peachtree Industrial Blvd of which takes you all the way to Gainesville uninterrupted.

Something else that I wanted to note is that...while Alpharetta houses alot of high end companies..alot of them don't pay very well. Most are around $45 - $60k range and ...well...you're not living in Alpharetta at that salary unless you're in an apartment.
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:27 PM
 
7,687 posts, read 9,527,345 times
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Quote:
why didn't Atlanta and the surrounding areas grow more equally distributed around the metro north south east and west instead of the majority of people and businesses being north?
Does any metro area really grow equally in all directions?

It seems like there are always one or two that end up being the most desirable. Of course, I'm sure there are always pockets of good and bad in all directions and interesting histories as to why it happened the way it did.
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:32 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 472,343 times
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Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Does any metro area really grow equally in all directions?

It seems like there are always one or two that end up being the most desirable. Of course, I'm sure there are always pockets of good and bad in all directions and interesting histories as to why it happened the way it did.
Atlanta actually is noticeably more top heavy (alot more northern development) than several major metros.

Chicago has several undesirable areas, but is pretty well rounded.
Houston is also pretty well rounded.
DFW is kind of like Atlanta in terms of alot of northern development but isn't as noticeable as it is here.
Minneapolis / St.Paul actually have better south sides than north sides.
D.C. is pretty well rounded
Los Angeles is also well rounded...
San Francisco ... is more / less North South orientated... Same goes for Seattle.

---

Now I'm not calling the areas south of Atlanta or anywhere else as Undesirable, but if you think about it, Newnan is no further than Lawrenceville is to Atlanta...but I-85 in that direction is very rural all the way from there to Union City where as on the opposite end its a 18 lane super highway with development all the way up to Buford.

I-75 is a bit better, by a large margin I should say but there's still a very noticable difference between I-75 through Clayton and Henry versus Marietta and Kennessaw, or North Fulton, or Gwinnett, ect.
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Old 04-24-2018, 11:05 PM
Status: "Ready for Fall" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Atlanta
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Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Atlanta actually is noticeably more top heavy (alot more northern development) than several major metros.

DFW is kind of like Atlanta in terms of alot of northern development but isn't as noticeable as it is here.
Absolutely not true. DFW is even more top heavy to the North than we are, by multiple times actually.

Go check it out sometime once you move to Austin for proof of this, or simply ask anyone from the Metroplex...
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:19 AM
 
5,358 posts, read 4,883,814 times
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Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Before I answer this question, I wish to point out that there are MANY nice and desirable areas east, west, AND SOUTH of Atlanta.

Now, believe it or not all of this goes back to 19th Century Atlanta and "being on the 'wrong' side of the tracks". Our original passenger and freight stations were along the "gulch" just south of Five Points. When trains went through town, their would be horrific traffic jams crossing through Five Points (just think dreadful in a car, intolerable in horse and buggy!) This is why viaducts were built throughout the southern end of downtown making the second floor the "first" street level floor creating a below street level "city" aka "Underground Atlanta" of mostly service streets. Anyway, this shifted the "favored quarter" of Atlanta both north and east ( why do you think there are so many leafy and lovely east side neighborhoods in Atlanta and why Dekalb County includes so many of the city's early suburbs.)

Also, Peachtree Street north of Five Points, (present day Peachtree Center/ Hotel District) was post Civil War Atlanta's "millionaire's row" with the mansions of the city's elite. (Including the fictional Victorian monstrosity of Scarlett and Rhett's Atlanta mansion in Gone with the Wind) So the more upscale shops and hotels followed the money north up Peachtree Street. This continued for decades. When the 100's block of Peachtree Street went commercial, the mansion district moved north to Midtown, and later in the 1920's and 30's further uptown to Buckhead, and of course the commercial district continued to follow it. Case in point: Peachtree Street IS "Business U.S. 19" Georgia 400 is also labeled at "U.S. 19" so you could say that they are following a "well worn path".
CWG gives an excellent explanation for how Atlanta's northward-heavy regional development trends got started into motion before World War II.

In the decades after World War II, Atlanta's northward-oriented/heavy regional development trends accelerated into hyperdrive with the construction of manmade reservoirs Lake Allatoona and Lake Lanier for purposes of water supply storage and recreation for much of Greater Atlanta, North Georgia and the Southeastern U.S.

The construction and completion of Lake Allatoona in what is now Northwest metro Atlanta in 1950 and the construction and completion of Lake Lanier in what is now Northeast metro Atlanta in 1956 generated a massive amount development to the north of Atlanta in the post-World War II era.

Lakes Allatoona and Lanier provided the water sources that were needed to attract and generate commercial and residential development on a massive scale north of the city.

The relatively close by foothills and ranges of the Blue Ridge Mountains/Southern Appalachian Mountains region also played a major role in helping to generate a massive amount of development in the area north of Atlanta. Real estate developers frequently used the relatively nearby presence and relative close proximity of the Blue Ridge/Southern Appalachian mountains region to market their commercial and residential developments to real estate buyers.

The combination of lakes Allatoona and Lanier and the foothills and ranges of the Blue Ridge/Southern Appalachian Mountains region have been a powerful generator of real estate development north of Atlanta in the post-World War II era.

The foothills and low ridges of the Blue Ridge/Southern Appalachian Mountains region north of Atlanta played a major factor in the construction of lakes Allatoona and Lanier north of the city because the hilly-to-mountainous terrain and generally abundant rainfall of that Blue Ridge foothills/mountain region north of the city made for great topographical and climatological conditions for those two important water supply lakes to be developed.

(...The Gainesville area where Lake Lanier is located receives an average of over 53 inches of precipitation per year, but areas further to the north in the Blue Ridge Mountains that replenish the Chattahoochee River headwaters and the larger watershed receive upwards of well over 65 inches of precipitation per year on average.)

The combined presence of lakes Allatoona and Lanier adjacent to the historically impoverished foothills and mountainous area north of Atlanta also motivated the construction of developmental spur superhighways Georgia 400, Interstate 575 and Interstate 985 and their super-arterial extensions Georgia 515 and Georgia 365 north out of the city.

Spur Interstate 575 in North/Northwest metro Atlanta was constructed past Lake Allatoona and extended into the North Georgia Mountains as Georgia State Route 515. Spur Interstate 985 in North/Northeast metro Atlanta was constructed along and past the east side of Lake Lanier and extended into Northeast Georgia as Georgia State Route 365.

Georgia 400 (which effectively spurs off of I-85 North in Buckhead) was constructed along and past the west side of Lake Lanier before ending just short of the North Georgia Mountains south of Dahlonega.

Northside spur radial superhighway/super-arterial routes like I-575/GA 515, GA 400 and I-985/GA 365 were each constructed with the intent of generating high levels of commercial development and increased economic activity in an area of the state (the Blue Ridge foothills and mountains region of North Georgia) that has traditionally suffered from very high rates of poverty and geographical and social isolation.

The combination of the development of Georgia 400 and Lake Lanier in particular has helped to break up a pocket of significant historical poverty and social isolation north of Atlanta in areas like North Fulton, Forsyth, Dawson and Lumpkin counties.

The presence of the Georgia 400 superhighway and Lake Lanier has helped to turn that North Fulton County/Forsyth County/Dawson County corridor from one of the poorest and most isolated parts of Georgia and the Southeastern U.S. into one of the most prosperous and affluent parts of the Southeastern U.S. by opening up to and generating massive levels of real estate development in North Georgia.
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Old 04-25-2018, 02:42 AM
 
1,137 posts, read 472,343 times
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Originally Posted by JMatl View Post
Absolutely not true. DFW is even more top heavy to the North than we are, by multiple times actually.

Go check it out sometime once you move to Austin for proof of this, or simply ask anyone from the Metroplex...
Well, from what it seemed to me when I was last there (last year during Hurricane season) when considering DFW's metro it seems out right huge (suburbs) but what I think it really is is that the suburbs of DFW aren't quite as spread so it looks like you're going through endless suburbs. It's true what you say that there's alot more growth in northern DFW than southern... while both cities are sprawled, Atlanta's sprawl is a bit more spread out than DFW's which seems to me pushes its northern suburbs further away from Downtown... and it also really depends on where you consider the metro to end as well...

But for example lets take a mild case from Downtown Atlanta to GA-400 @ GA-369 (just north of Cumming where GA-400's grade separation ends, although many will say Atlanta's north metro extends beyond this point as well.)

This is 43.6 miles
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Atla...3!2d34.2634444

In a more extreme case, the metro can also be considered pretty suburban all the way to Gainesville which adds approximately 10 more miles.

Going the opposite way in Atlanta puts you about 15 - 20 miles North of Forsyth but nowhere near as much development down there...

Now comparably to DFW area...

I'm going for the more extreme case of Melissa TX (north of McKinney on U.S. 75)

which is aproximately 44 miles (note that in FortWorth and North Central area it ends much sooner than this.):
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Dall...766642!1m0!3e0

DFW has alot of northern development but I guess what makes it seem like less is that its not as spread out as it is here.
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Old 04-25-2018, 03:32 AM
Status: "Ready for Fall" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Atlanta
4,644 posts, read 3,012,162 times
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Originally Posted by Need4Camaro View Post
Well, from what it seemed to me when I was last there (last year during Hurricane season) when considering DFW's metro it seems out right huge (suburbs) but what I think it really is is that the suburbs of DFW aren't quite as spread so it looks like you're going through endless suburbs. It's true what you say that there's alot more growth in northern DFW than southern... while both cities are sprawled, Atlanta's sprawl is a bit more spread out than DFW's which seems to me pushes its northern suburbs further away from Downtown... and it also really depends on where you consider the metro to end as well...

But for example lets take a mild case from Downtown Atlanta to GA-400 @ GA-369 (just north of Cumming where GA-400's grade separation ends, although many will say Atlanta's north metro extends beyond this point as well.)

This is 43.6 miles
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Atla...3!2d34.2634444

In a more extreme case, the metro can also be considered pretty suburban all the way to Gainesville which adds approximately 10 more miles.

Going the opposite way in Atlanta puts you about 15 - 20 miles North of Forsyth but nowhere near as much development down there...

Now comparably to DFW area...

I'm going for the more extreme case of Melissa TX (north of McKinney on U.S. 75)

which is aproximately 44 miles (note that in FortWorth and North Central area it ends much sooner than this.):
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Dall...766642!1m0!3e0

DFW has alot of northern development but I guess what makes it seem like less is that its not as spread out as it is here.
DFW has massive business development in those sprawling northern reaches that are becoming true edge cities, something we don't have past Alpharetta.

Again, check it out in person when you move for proof. It's nothing but pure prairie out there in that part of the Metroplex, with none of the impediments to growth that we have. You also need to remember that DFW has 1.5 million more people than we do, and they are mostly to the North.
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