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Old 01-09-2019, 08:14 PM
 
4,809 posts, read 3,173,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Our city streets should not be for cars, but rather people.
So, a gigantic road network just for people who choose to walk or bike (like 0.5%)?
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:26 PM
 
10,395 posts, read 7,363,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
So, a gigantic road network just for people who choose to walk or bike (like 0.5%)?
You ever bother to wonder why it is "0.5%"?

People can walk or bike down a free dirt path. The cars are the ones dependent on the gigantic, expensive road network.

Get the death machines out of the way in enough places for people to safely get around and people will walk / bike / scooter like they do in most of the world.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
5,175 posts, read 3,943,971 times
Reputation: 2713
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Person. Singular. There is usually just one.

We need to allocate usage of our finite street space by it's ability to safely and best serve the most people. That means a lot less space to that person in a car so that space can be used by better and safer alternatives for more people such as walking, biking, scooters, and transit.
Great, then build the dang alternatives first. Once you make it so people don't HAVE to drive just to go about their normal lives, rip up and remove the streets in their entirety for all I care. I'd LOVE to live car-free BUT I AND MOST OTHERS CAN'T! That's all I'm saying about that in this thread.
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Old 01-09-2019, 08:41 PM
 
10,395 posts, read 7,363,364 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
Great, then build the dang alternatives first. Once you make it so people don't HAVE to drive just to go about their normal lives, rip up and remove the streets in their entirety for all I care. I'd LOVE to live car-free BUT I AND MOST OTHERS CAN'T! That's all I'm saying about that in this thread.
Sure you can.

You just don't want to because it is institutionalized in how we design our cities in American over the last 80 years to put cars first which make it difficult & expensive to live a car-free lifestyle.

We got to change that. And that means giving more space and resources to alternatives to cars.

Space for alternatives doesn't come out of thing air, it needs to come from cars since they own 90%+ of the RoW.

Cars giving up space has to come first.

Which, *gasp* might cost you 30 extra seconds on your car commute.
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Old 01-10-2019, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,045 posts, read 17,212,875 times
Reputation: 5259
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
So, a gigantic road network just for people who choose to walk or bike (like 0.5%)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
Great, then build the dang alternatives first. Once you make it so people don't HAVE to drive just to go about their normal lives, rip up and remove the streets in their entirety for all I care. I'd LOVE to live car-free BUT I AND MOST OTHERS CAN'T! That's all I'm saying about that in this thread.
Not at all, simply design the streets for safe use by ALL modes of transportation or COMPLETE STREETS.
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:18 PM
 
4,809 posts, read 3,173,079 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
You ever bother to wonder why it is "0.5%"?

People can walk or bike down a free dirt path. The cars are the ones dependent on the gigantic, expensive road network.
Sp, you can easily walk down a dirt path, but instead, you need 12-foot-wode sidewalks on every road in addition to separated lanes for bikes and scooters?

Quote:
Get the death machines out of the way in enough places for people to safely get around and people will walk / bike / scooter like they do in most of the world.
The death machines? Really? And you wonder why so few people listen to you. People drive because they generally want to go places that are further than half a mile from their house, and the alternatives simply take too long. You have chosen to restrict yourself to places which happen to be close by or accessible via the alternative methods, using a longer part of your day commuting, or using someone else's car. If I wanted to spend 90 minutes commuting each way for 12 miles, then yeah, I could go car-free. If I wanted to never take my kid mini-golfing (his favorite activity), then yeah, I could go car-free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Cars giving up space has to come first.
So, we'll go into complete gridlock for however long it takes for the alternatives to come about and for people to all somehow manage to move to within easy walking and transit distance of their destinations. So, maybe 20-30 years or so of gridlock?

Quote:
Which, *gasp* might cost you 30 extra seconds on your car commute.
Nope. This 30 seconds trope is long since debunked. Let's look at the math.

Times for 30MPH, 40MPH, and 50MPH:
1 Mile: 2:00, 1:30, 1:12
5 Miles: 10:00, 7:30, 6:00
10 Miles: 20:00, 15:00, 12:00
15 Miles: 30:00, 22:30, 18:00

So, the only way that slowing people down even ten miles an hour is going to cost them only 30 seconds is if they are going about one mile. Of course, that's theoretical and doesn't take traffic signals into account. So, if you take people with ten-mile commutes (not very long), and reduce their average from 35 MPH down to 25 MPH, you're adding 6:51 minutes each way, or about 13.5 minutes per day. That's over 56 hours additional per year. Not "just 30 seconds".



Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Not at all, simply design the streets for safe use by ALL modes of transportation or COMPLETE STREETS.
This is viable for selected streets around the metro as a retrofit. It's simply not possible for every road without acquiring new ROW. Roads with less than 40' ROW, and even less than 30' ROW would be tough to make viable for all modes. Maybe if our city had been designed differently from the very beginning.
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Old 01-11-2019, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
23,045 posts, read 17,212,875 times
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Death Machine vs Scooter injuries
Quote:
Cars kill 40,000 Americans a year, and they emit climate-warming gases while doing it. While scooter-related emergency room visits appear to be on the rise since these little dockless vehicles hit America’s roads
https://www.citylab.com/transportati...d-lime/577687/
40K that's more than all American deaths in Korean War.
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Old 01-11-2019, 03:30 PM
 
233 posts, read 56,189 times
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Time is ripe for Atlanta to plan for and build out a crosstown interconnected protected bike and transit network. No more of these odd service routes or disjointed networks. Atlanta City Design is progressing. People are moving to Atlanta in droves. Business is booming. Land use/zoning changes are on the way. It's time to build the city to support the people to live here, not the vehicles that pass through it.
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Old 01-12-2019, 10:57 AM
 
4,809 posts, read 3,173,079 times
Reputation: 3177
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Death Machine vs Scooter injuries

https://www.citylab.com/transportati...d-lime/577687/
40K that's more than all American deaths in Korean War.
True. There were about 1.8 million troops total over the war, with 40,000 deaths. A rate of 2,222 per 100,000. Driving has a rate of about 11.4 per 100,000. In case you were wondering, that's a rate 0.5% the rate of war deaths. Also, note that the number of driving deaths now is almost equal to the time period of the Korean war, even though population has doubled, and miles driven are between 5 and 6 times higher. We are well below even actual numbers from the 60s, 70s, and early 80s, and a fraction of other metrics.

Also, falling accounts for close to as many deaths as driving. I'm betting a good number of those are on those concrete death-walks (can we call sidewalks that now?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Advocate View Post
It's time to build the city to support the people to live here, not the vehicles that pass through it.
What about all the people who live in the city and drive around it? Screw them? Do you honestly think the vast majority of city residents are walking and biking everywhere, or even would?
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Old 01-12-2019, 11:40 AM
 
233 posts, read 56,189 times
Reputation: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas1 View Post
True. There were about 1.8 million troops total over the war, with 40,000 deaths. A rate of 2,222 per 100,000. Driving has a rate of about 11.4 per 100,000. In case you were wondering, that's a rate 0.5% the rate of war deaths. Also, note that the number of driving deaths now is almost equal to the time period of the Korean war, even though population has doubled, and miles driven are between 5 and 6 times higher. We are well below even actual numbers from the 60s, 70s, and early 80s, and a fraction of other metrics.

Also, falling accounts for close to as many deaths as driving. I'm betting a good number of those are on those concrete death-walks (can we call sidewalks that now?).



What about all the people who live in the city and drive around it? Screw them? Do you honestly think the vast majority of city residents are walking and biking everywhere, or even would?
It doesn’t matter if people drive or not- we have to build for people and communities. The more communities we have- the shorter distances anyone would have to drive anywhere else. Stop acting like driving is the only way or that anyone is saying you cannot own a car. Your excuses are exhausted.
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