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Old 08-25-2018, 09:44 PM
 
Location: Lake Spivey, Georgia
1,841 posts, read 1,263,757 times
Reputation: 1958

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Stockbridge for YEARS annexed away at commercial and industrial corridors with reckless abandoned and NEVER seemed interested in the adjacent residential creating a ridiculous amoeba with tendrils going all through north central Henry County. This demented annexation on the Clayton/ Henry line also is one of the main things that killed the Lake Spivey city hood movement well over a decade ago; there were no commercial corridors left to provide an adequate tax base. To add insult to injury, the City of Stockbridge does not offer ANY public safety: it does NOT have a police, fire, or EMT service. All of these are STILL provided by the overworked Henry County departments. So, there seems to be NO benefit to being in the City of Stockbridge, just added bureaucracy and taxes with few added services. I do believe that the proposed City of Eagles Landing will have its own police department, quite an incentive for a population that has the perception (or reality) of rising crime.
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Old 08-25-2018, 09:58 PM
 
28,178 posts, read 24,730,127 times
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There's nothing inherent about police, fire, roads, schools, libraries, planning, trash collection or other municipal services that makes them more the domain of cities rather than counties. In many places. counties do a crackerjack job of handling these services efficiently and at a very reasonable cost. (And some cities do a miserable job of providing those services).

However, that's a separate issue from annexation policy.
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Lake Spivey, Georgia
1,841 posts, read 1,263,757 times
Reputation: 1958
Maybe a big city police department would have the same or worse response time, but small towns usually have MUCH better response times. When I lived in the City of Morrow we had SPECTACULAR city (municipal) services: we had twice weekly BACKYARD garbage pick up with recycling, a fabulous pedestrian path system, and, best of all, rapid response from emergency (police, fire, EMT) services. When my parents were still alive, we had many EMT calls answered in a minute and a half, same for the fire department when my father's truck caught fire in our drive way. We also had a once hourly police patrol of the neighborhoods 24/7. Compare that to where I live now in unincorporated Clayton County. Yes, our neighborhood is quiet, but I NEVER see the police on patrol. Neighbors have said that it takes a LOT longer to get the EMT out, too. There is just usually better response from small city police departments just because they are small with "fewer fish to fry".
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Old 08-25-2018, 10:44 PM
 
28,178 posts, read 24,730,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
Maybe a big city police department would have the same or worse response time, but small towns usually have MUCH better response times. When I lived in the City of Morrow we had SPECTACULAR city (municipal) services: we had twice weekly BACKYARD garbage pick up with recycling, a fabulous pedestrian path system, and, best of all, rapid response from emergency (police, fire, EMT) services. When my parents were still alive, we had many EMT calls answered in a minute and a half, same for the fire department when my father's truck caught fire in our drive way. We also had a once hourly police patrol of the neighborhoods 24/7. Compare that to where I live now in unincorporated Clayton County. Yes, our neighborhood is quiet, but I NEVER see the police on patrol. Neighbors have said that it takes a LOT longer to get the EMT out, too. There is just usually better response from small city police departments just because they are small with "fewer fish to fry".
I'm thinking it has to do with how they staff up and how large an area they have to handle. If the city or county services are spread too thin, they're not going to do as many patrols or have as fast a response time. You'll probably get a quicker response in a smaller town than you will in a large city or county.

How fast does 911 get to you? It depends on where you live
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Old 08-26-2018, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,280,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I'm thinking it has to do with how they staff up and how large an area they have to handle. If the city or county services are spread too thin, they're not going to do as many patrols or have as fast a response time. You'll probably get a quicker response in a smaller town than you will in a large city or county.

How fast does 911 get to you? It depends on where you live
I was thinking the same thing.

First, ClaytonWG thanks for sharing! I was actually intrigued Morrow had their own fire department. Most ... small... cities around here don't seem to go that too often.

I can certainly see the advantage. You don't like your fire services, so you can put your own firehouse right in the center of town and everyone lives near it.

I was in the center of Lilburn once and a bad wreck happened right in front of me at Main St and US29. Lilburn doesn't have fire services, but for the most part the county coverage in the area is rock-solid.

There is a station just outside of town to the southwest and one immediately to northeast. There are 3 more in some-what close proximity, but about an extra 5 minutes away in the other directions. For the most part that is how stations are spaced out across the whole county.

So when this wreck happened some of us got out of our cars and started checking up on everyone and luckily everyone was fine for the most part, but what amazed me was not just how fast the response was but that fire trucks and ambulances came to the scene from multiple directions within just a few minutes of it being called in.

There is a bit of redundancy to the system and if one area of the county got too busy, support from other stations nearby are only an extra few minutes away. I'm sure Clayton Co. will help out when needed, but this could be an issue if there is every a large-scale situation at Southlake Mall as an example. It's easier for a larger entity to manage and focus extra resources on larger problems.


So a small town might have less redundancy in larger-scale situations or multiple emergencies at once... or... have to spend more per capita to maintain those levels of redundancy. However, they can have superior service for most single situations.
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Old 08-26-2018, 02:32 PM
bu2
 
9,014 posts, read 5,700,078 times
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Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
That's not really entirely fair.

In Georgia Counties are stuck taking on any of the civic services that cities don't provide and they are also stuck providing services that are unincorporated.

Cities only have to provide 3 services to be a city and many of these new "city-lite" concepts that have become popular on the northside merely take on zoning, police, sometimes parks.

Either way, they are the default government that takes on needs that aren't chosen by a city. To make matters worse, the job of the county gets harder when cities annex land for the purposes of preferential zoning and the county is left trying to work it into their plan for all other services, often transportation is the largest, but also potentially fire, health, parks, etc..
That is a failure of both city and annexation policy. Of course, they wouldn't have to provide those services to the city-lites if they hadn't already started.

I don't see any reason for a "city-lite" except for a very small community. The cafeteria smorgasbord idea is a really bad idea. And then it leads to negotiation issues. Gwinnett County was suing its cities a few years back over the issue. There's nothing more absurd than two entities you are paying taxes to using your dollars to pay lawyers to determine who gets how much of your dollars.
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Old 08-26-2018, 02:42 PM
bu2
 
9,014 posts, read 5,700,078 times
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Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
In that case I just disagree with you..

With all due respect things aren't as "F'd up" across the board as you make it seem.

I live in Gwinnett and it seems to have the perfect economies of scale for well run water, sewage, schools, etc..

The thought that there would be 30 or 40 towns providing all these services wouldn't be efficient.

Now things aren't perfect. The annexation standards leave much to be desired, but that alone is hardly a reason to chastise Georgia counties for not being like Texas.
Water, sewage and schools are different. I am talking about police, fire, zoning, permitting, etc.

Water & sewage (in developed areas, not rural areas) is normally done with large regions because of the need to develop resevoirs. And in Gwinnett and Dekalb, I do believe they have left some areas as septic tank areas for sewer.


I'm not aware of anywhere else that has fluid school district lines as we do here with the "city districts." In Houston, for example, there are unincorporated areas in the Houston ISD. And there are parts of Houston in at least a dozen districts besides Houston. The school districts operate independently of what the city does with annexation.
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Old 08-26-2018, 02:49 PM
 
28,178 posts, read 24,730,127 times
Reputation: 9560
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
There's nothing more absurd than two entities you are paying taxes to using your dollars to pay lawyers to determine who gets how much of your dollars.
How about cities paying hundreds of thousands in taxpayer dollars for $900 an hour legal fees to defend politicians on corruption charges and open records requests? How about cities spending tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars for lip sync contests, luxury international travel, fancy steak dinners and Ivy League tuition for departing employees? How about a city "losing" an $80,000 backhoe and 28 industrial water meters worth $5,000 each and then paying a silk stocking law firm $178,000 to look into it?


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Old 08-26-2018, 06:15 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 453,980 times
Reputation: 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton white guy View Post
To add insult to injury, the City of Stockbridge does not offer ANY public safety: it does NOT have a police, fire, or EMT service. All of these are STILL provided by the overworked Henry County departments. So, there seems to be NO benefit to being in the City of Stockbridge, just added bureaucracy and taxes with few added services. I do believe that the proposed City of Eagles Landing will have its own police department, quite an incentive for a population that has the perception (or reality) of rising crime.
Now all of this, I wasn't aware of.

In Newnan, the way it has grown is somewhat similar to Stockbridge, with the Summergrove area carrying most of the revenue burden for the city (and there being a sizable lower income minority population near the historic town square). But there are a number of differences. One difference is that the city offers just about every type of municipal service you can think of except libraries and schools. It even owns and operates a power / water / sewerage system. Also, the vast majority of the city leaders are white (with the main exception being the Mayor Pro-Tem). Another difference too is that a lot of the lower income minorities in Coweta County are gradually being driven out to Meriwether County, while again, Henry County is still seeing a ton of flight from Clayton County.

So now it's somewhat understandable where the pro-deannexation folks are coming from. Still doesn't make it right though.

Last edited by citidata18; 08-26-2018 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 08-26-2018, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Lake Spivey, Georgia
1,841 posts, read 1,263,757 times
Reputation: 1958
People I know from Newnan RAVE about the quality of Newnan city services; this is NOT what you hear from people in Stockbridge. The Newnan historic district DOES have two faces: gorgeous historic mansions that make Newnan, "The City of Homes" and quite a bit of low income neighborhoods, too. Most county seat towns around Georgia are like this it seems: Newnan, McDonough, Jonesboro, Marietta, etc. Still, in the case of Newnan, it does give the local schools more economic and racial diversity; while Newnan High doesn't rate quite as high as the two other high school in Coweta County, it is no slouch either and really gives its community a solid high school option with true economic diversity.
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